Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005, 5:03pm Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
So, it seems there are some amazing things to be seen this year... Mark, I want to know how you heard anything about the consumer/prosumer machines from the big LM... Seriously, cause if I get there and there's nothing I am going to cry. To be able to hear about, let alone see something like this would be as incredible as my first double-shot from Stumpies or Vivace...
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005, 5:22pm Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
KeithH Said:
And I think the pods class sucks. Wish I had thought of it sooner, but wanted to print shirts that said: Back to the Future? The Pursuit of Perfection? PUCK FODS <snip> In my opinion the pods class is really a pretty lame thing to have at the SCAA...
Why? You're a professional roaster. How much of what you roast gets the care it deserves on its way into the cup? How many of your customers (retail or wholesale) have good grinders, use them properly, store your coffee properly, throw out stale coffee, tamp properly, etc., etc. Most roasters I know constantly worry how much damage is being done to their good name once their beans leave the shop.
With properly made pods and good brewers you can get maybe 75 to 80% of what your beans are capable of delivering. Not what you or I would settle for, but way better than what most of your customers are doing to them. Think about it.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005, 11:29pm Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
MarshallF Said:
Why? You're a professional roaster. How much of what you roast gets the care it deserves on its way into the cup? How many of your customers (retail or wholesale) have good grinders, use them properly, store your coffee properly, throw out stale coffee, tamp properly, etc., etc. Most roasters I know constantly worry how much damage is being done to their good name once their beans leave the shop.
With properly made pods and good brewers you can get maybe 75 to 80% of what your beans are capable of delivering. Not what you or I would settle for, but way better than what most of your customers are doing to them. Think about it.
Marshall - he's a stated "Third Waver". If you know the concept of the third wave in coffee, you probably don't think there's any room in there whatsoever for pods. ;)
Posted Wed Apr 13, 2005, 12:08am Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
MarkPrince Said:
Marshall - he's a stated "Third Waver". If you know the concept of the third wave in coffee, you probably don't think there's any room in there whatsoever for pods. ;)
Keith's profile says he's a "Pro Roaster," and I was addressing him as such. Roasters can take an oath to only sell to accounts (or retail customers) that practice the "Third Wave;" but I doubt it is a viable business model. :-)
KeithH Senior Member Joined: 6 Feb 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Mt. Shasta. California Expertise: Pro Roaster
Posted Wed Apr 13, 2005, 12:42am Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
Well--I am a pro but a small time one.
I left my roasting position of 5 years not too long ago and am currently involved in my own scheme to bring a good cup to the faithful.
But even when I was with my former employer--third wave or not---I would still say PUCK FODS.
Perhaps I am missing something. I agree Marshall, that the idea of leaving my hard work in the hands of a minumum wage worker who uses the tamper that came bolted to the grinder frightens me. But so far I do not see pods as a solution---perhaps a Swift beofre that!!
Granted--i have never had coffee from a pod (that I know of) Maybe I am wrong! Perhaps the big 4 are currently producing pods and I would hate their coffee--pod or not. Would be interesting to try Black Cat out of a pod and compare----
Meanwhile--I trust my butcher, my baker and my barista to deliver me a quality product.
hopkin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 125 Location: Vancouver, Canada Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Synesso Grinder: Robur E Vac Pot: Hario Drip: Clover
Posted Wed Apr 13, 2005, 3:13am Subject: Re: SCAA Seattle 2005 Preview by Mark Prince
I don't want to add to the pod (pre-ground) debate here as there are so many of them... but ok I'll say my rant.
It belongs with the super-automatic vs manual debate - there are no shortcuts on quality. You don't see the four stars using bread machines and appliances to make demi glace - and it does not appear out of a wrapper. NO, if you want to make something great you do it with your hands. As any great chef will insist: to achieve something great is to get back to chopping with a good sharp knife and using real, fresh, and whole ingredients.
The highest quality will always be handcrafted. The arguement that automation is good or "better" for the 85% of shops that don't know or can't train is backward thinking.. its bad news for everyone, its bad news for coffee. Pods may produce better espresso than one ill-prepared, but is it great espresso? NO. Its not progress. Shopowners must be educated coffee professionals who TRAIN and uphold the craft of brewing great coffee.
Illy is a perfect example, spending millions in r&d trying to preserve coffee freshness. They failed. Why not roast fresh? Are we shipping coffee to other planets? They may as well try and preserve fresh cut flowers! Maybe they should get into the anti aging gig.
"What is to give light must endure burning." - Victor Frankl
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