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Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
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Diablo
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Nemox Lux
Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006, 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
 

Thanks guys, no offense taken, I just want to get to the bottom of this.
I wish there was a way to verify this before laying out more cash, cuz I'll be mighty p-o'd if it doesnt help :)
But I'll still say she shouldnt be quite so picky about the coffee in order to produce even just a mediocre shot.
Out of curiousity, what temp does your shot come out at? I just ran a single and it took between 10-15 secs, and was 130deg. and had the thinnest layer of crema on top (more suds than crema really).

I just want to really rule out every possibility of it being my machine and nothing else.

If I do go the route of a grinder (I suspect this will be a never ending saga, next bad shots will be blamed on the roasting, then the beans, then the weather or color shirt I'm wearing ") ), what do you guys think of the Lucy? I think the WAF is higher with this due to not having more contraptions on the counter. Is it really a combo of Silvia and Rocky, or a half assed mimic of both?

Thanks.
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,259
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006, 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
 

Lars, please take a look at our profiles & see the grinders we're using, there's GOOD reason for that! You will never get excellent espresso out of your machine with preground, period!

The Miss Silvia is a completely manual machine & is very particular about the quality of the espresso grind that you feed her, & the reason being is every machine, operator, methods, etc is a little different from the next & you have to have hands on adjustability/tunability., one on one.

To put it into perspective on a linear scale, the whole bean would represent a 1. For the fineness of the grind for espresso, the bean particle fineness size is 1,000,000. Yes, one million to one!!

Your coffee that is preground is beginning to stale & oxidize & loose volatile aromatics (due to surface to air ratio) almost immediately, certainly within several minutes. If the grind is off even a few clicks & not tuned to the machine, you'll have a completely useless shot, a too fast gusher. A few clicks the other way & you can choke the machine so tightly that not even a drop will come out, completely stalled.

A GOOD espresso grinder is a very crucial piece of equipment in the equation here, & of paramount importance!
I can't really stress this enough as I & others have repeated this time & time again, over & over.


"Re: Advice on a new espresso machine"

"Re: Two broken Solis Maestros, any better suggestions?"

More: Click Here (www.coffeegeek.com)

Google's you friend, & Secret Search Button!.

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
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RapidCoffee
Senior Member
RapidCoffee
Joined: 4 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,931
Location: Rapid City, SD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1
Grinder: Mazzer Robur
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: misc
Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006, 4:08pm
Subject: Re: Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
 

Diablo Said:

Thanks guys, no offense taken, I just want to get to the bottom of this.
I wish there was a way to verify this before laying out more cash, cuz I'll be mighty p-o'd if it doesnt help :)
But I'll still say she shouldnt be quite so picky about the coffee in order to produce even just a mediocre shot.
Out of curiousity, what temp does your shot come out at? I just ran a single and it took between 10-15 secs, and was 130deg. and had the thinnest layer of crema on top (more suds than crema really).

I just want to really rule out every possibility of it being my machine and nothing else.

If I do go the route of a grinder (I suspect this will be a never ending saga, next bad shots will be blamed on the roasting, then the beans, then the weather or color shirt I'm wearing ") ), what do you guys think of the Lucy? I think the WAF is higher with this due to not having more contraptions on the counter. Is it really a combo of Silvia and Rocky, or a half assed mimic of both?

Posted December 17, 2006 link

Lars, no offense, but: forget the espresso machine and concentrate on the grinder! There is no way to draw any solid conclusions about your espresso machine's performance using preground coffee. I know it's not what you want to hear, but good espresso (and coffee in general) is critically dependent on the grinder.

Re Lucy: you've already got Silvia, why replace it with a discontinued combo unit? Just get a good grinder (minimum cost new is about $200), find a source of freshly roasted beans, and then your espresso journey can truly begin.
_________
John
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Sirthinks
Senior Member
Sirthinks
Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: La Pavoni  JOLLY LUSSO
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
 

After trying, trying and trying again....  I found this post....  It took me two tries after reading it to get AMAZING crema!!  Well done...  This was a great help.

I am not using Sylvia, but it seems the principles are the same.  My 1000.00 dollar machine was not producing more than a minimal amount of crema and I was getting frustrated.

It seems my grinder is perfectly set (a La Pavoni burr grinder), so now what?

It was the tamp and shine.  I followed the directions in this article to a tee and et voila, BEAUTIFUL crema and exquisitely rich espresso.  So I pulled out an old Starbucks Barrista machine, followed the same instructions, and even this beast produced awesome coffee with rich crema!!

AWESOME!
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,259
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Making Espresso and Progress! by Ed Gabrielle
 

Well Done John, & Welcome to the Coffeegeek forums! {;-D

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
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