Gobs Senior Member Joined: 5 Sep 2004 Posts: 41 Location: Hr Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Dec 9, 2005, 4:13am Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
I do believe there’s a lot more to come specially when there are a lot of curious minds out there wanting to tip the scale and to see where it takes them. From new techniques to new equipment to personal discoveries, it's with everything in life, growth is inevitable. Who would have thought the internet would have grown the way it did except for the visionaries behind it and it’s still growing and developing now because of the different barriers designers, developers, and entrepreneurs want to surpass.
Sometimes it may be daunting to think about what is to come and will I be a part if it or can I handle the change and that is why some people are comfortable thinking about the finish line they have crossed. The “be all, end all” as you said, is a mind set to show some kind of peak of achievement. Some times when we try a shot better than what we thought was our best shot, we think to ourselves, ”but I have done everything I know”, but truly, there is never enough knowledge out there.
I’m glued to this forum because it feels like a pot mixed with different thinkers with different approaches to the same thing. From restorations to modifications to just a simple point to the right direction, we all have something to contribute. Friendships built along the way are also a nice touch.
I’m excited to see what's to come.
Gobs
"I never discovered anything with my rational mind." - Albert Einstein
krazy_crane Senior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 322 Location: new yawk Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Astra Pro(home), Gaggia... Grinder: Mazzer Major & Super Jolly... Vac Pot: n/a Drip: Bodum French Press, Barista... Roaster: Stir Crazy/Sunpentown...
Posted Fri Dec 9, 2005, 8:55am Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
I think Mark hit the nail right on the head, espresso nirvana is a constantly moving target as technology (i.e., machines) advance, and skills (i.e., baristas) advance. I know that since I began drinking espresso in '96 my equipment, skills, and palate have continued to evolve and be refined. Way back in 1985, when I bought a grind and brew Toshiba machine I thought I was in coffee heaven. Twenty years later I now know that was just the beginning of the journey not the end point. While I am now producing something far superior every day, I hope that in another 20 years I can look back and state the same. Thanks Mark for giving us a place to meet. congregate and share our coffee experience/addiction/compulsion. I know that without CG, my journey would have been quite different. May we all live happily in our ever changing (and improving) state of espresso nirvana, because enjoying that cup of coffee in front of us right now is really what it is all about! Thanks to all who have helped me on my journey, Kevin
Posted Fri Dec 9, 2005, 12:15pm Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
krazy_crane Said:
Thanks Mark for giving us a place to meet. congregate and share our coffee experience/addiction/compulsion. I know that without CG, my journey would have been quite different.
Very well put, Kevin, I absolutely agree. I too would have been in a completely different place (at least coffee-wise) without CG.
Thanks Mark.
I do feel though, that the 'nirvana-state' isn't just an espresso-thing; for me, the pursuit is about a better cup of coffee - be that espresso, french-press or whatever the brew method.
elliott Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2005 Posts: 35 Location: cleveland Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Dec 9, 2005, 1:39pm Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
i second all the comments above. this article and CG have definitely gotten me pumped and excited about coffee. but one thing that i find odd, is that this article assumes espresso is the future. is it true that espresso surpases a french press? I love both equally. i worked as a barista, but always kept a press at home. are there any people trying to perfect other brewing methods? are there new methods being created? what is beyond espresso?
i dont have the answers to any of these questions, i am only 23 and have been in love with coffee for a very short time, and yet I want to contribute, I just dont know how...
wogaut Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2004 Posts: 459 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi Grinder: La San Marco FK Roaster: Hottop+PID
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005, 9:25am Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
...and at some point we're really talking about personal preference; the very subtile flavor differences in the cup that make you prefer one 'perfect' shot over the other.
IMO there's general agreement of 'bad shots' vs. 'good shots'. But once there's a certain degree of perfection and it comes to reach the nirvana, then I believe this is something very personal and individual. And even for one and the same person it's an ever changing evolving process, after all it's an acquired taste. Six years ago I drank only cappuccinos (or 'melange', the Viennese version of it). Today I prefer to endulge that perfect shot without milk; I learned to appreciate it. And then, all the subtile flavor components in different great coffee rosts/blends... I even don't know myself sometimes which I like best...
So when it comes to nirvana, then it's how Mark said: It's about the process; with the frightening truth, that there may be no such thing as a perfect cup...
Good news is, that we will always have something to talk and ponder about! :))
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005, 10:23am Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
In a great many fields, one good indicator of a failure, the production of something just not good enough, is that everyone (pretty much) agrees about what's wrong with it. If everyone says a movie has a disappointing ending, you can bet that it does. If everyone says, they didn't like the movie and they then give a range of different reasons, then you better check it out yourself. There just might be something there you will respond to.
Coffee is something like that. The glaring defects are a matter of consensus. When the consensus breaks down, interesting things might be afoot.
On that other topic, thanking Mark is often done, but cannot be overdone. So, thank you, Mark, staff, and moderators.
DaveS Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 185 Location: Toronto, Ontario Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky Roaster: I-Roast
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005, 9:16pm Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
Thanks Mark for reviving an article that I have to admit I had previously overlooked. The GS3 clearly is a significant machine based on what you are saying. I wonder also how much roasting technology will continue to evolve - on the home roasting front we seem to be seeing ever increasing refinements in control - I wonder how much scope for improvement there is in the home and commercial machines and how this will affect the quality of our coffee. From my perspective, I seem to be able to apply as much control over the end result through the roasting process as through the brewing process sometimes.
cpl593h Senior Member Joined: 6 Apr 2005 Posts: 656 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Zaffiro+PID home/GB5 work Grinder: Super Jolly home/Major work Vac Pot: Yama 8c Drip: Chemex
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005, 10:29pm Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
Mark, I really loved the article. This is the first time I've been really compelled to post feedback on an article. Why this time? Wisdom and humility. You've really hit the nail on the head and made me (and others) excited about the trip ahead.
So who's going to start tackling real-time water mineral profiling?
redgundogs Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 2 Location: NE Illinois Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005, 4:51am Subject: Re: Reaching Espresso Nirvana by Mark Prince
This was a great article to read, over a lingering latte. The question about water qualities, and their effect on the final product, is one that I have often wondered about. I get a great shot with my well water and an RO system. It is better than I got when I had arguably the best municipal water, from Hetch Hetchy, when I lived in California. Same machine. I sincerely hope that the topic of water will be discussed more and that it will be looked at, not only for what works 'the best' (fairly subjective), but also to pinpoint what characteristics in the coffee are enhanced by different minerals in water. Even which minerals enhance a certain roast. I have reached Coffee Nirvana so many times. It is influenced not only by the quality of the shot, but also by the state of mind. Sometimes the harmony with coffee is greater than it is at others. When the experience falls short, I know that another perfect one is right around the corner.
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