nobbi4711 Senior Member Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 328 Location: Germany Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Dallacorte Mini EX4 Grinder: Casadio Instantaneous Vac Pot: none Drip: French Press Roaster: Mini-500/800N drum roaster;...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2008, 3:10am Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
andys Said:
Illy Coffee appears to be in a class of its own. They do a lot of cutting-edge stuff, like the blending, the automated optical sorting, etc, then ruin it all with their packaging designed for ultra-long shelf life. Oh well....
Full Ack. I used to do some experimenting with the 3kg business cans, and the result was terrible. Illy Arabica after 2 months is rubbish, just like any other Arabica after that time. Maybe still some taste but almost no crema left.
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
If *$ is "the McDonald's of Espresso" in a restaurant/café situation, Ily is the "Taster's Choice of the espresso home market." Consistency is prized over technique, convenience is prized over quality, brand loyalty is prized over freshness.
Also Full Ack. Don't even think that the few thousands of geeks in the world are a target market for a roaster as big as Illy.
I think the Illy family is not only a family of coffee and chemistry experts; they are also marketing experts. By declaring that only Arabica espresso is good espresso a lot of years ago, the made all other Italian roasters to 2nd class roasters. Strangely enough, nobody ever (esp here in Germany) asked if the Illy espresso is really the best.... I don't like it that much (even if it's fresh), I think the best espresso has a small robusta amount of 10 to 20%. But's that's just my 2cent (and those of millions of Italians...*jibing*)
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 3:03am Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
I have to admit shaking my head when reading the recycling / sustainable aspects of the plastic pods. Gnomer's comments help clear up some things, but I can't help but go "where's the biodegradability" of the plastic involved.
Also, I don't think Andrea Illy gives out many interviews, could be wrong on that... but: After the publication of this article, I was contacted by three different media sources in Italy who wanted to quote some (or all) of the interview.
For me - when I previewed this article before it was published, I was seriously jonesin'. Liz is a fantastic writer, and a great addition to the CoffeeGeek team. I can't wait for her next article!
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 5:32am Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
MarkPrince Said:
I have to admit shaking my head when reading the recycling / sustainable aspects of the plastic pods. Gnomer's comments help clear up some things, but I can't help but go "where's the biodegradability" of the plastic involved.
I think Illy's answer to the use of plastics was reasonable. It's up to the consumer to either divert the plastic to recycling or throw it in the garbage. It think when he was referring to the plastic as a potetial fuel source he was referring to incineration which is more popular in Europe.
Sorry to dwell on this, but there is no way these plastic things are going to be recycled. With current technology it is not economically feasible to recycle an object with one type of plastic embedded in another (as Illy describes). I reread the interview to look for the section stating that Illycafe was donating ten billion dollars to develop the technology and infrastructure to do so, but I can't seem to find it.
And in North America the plastic is not going to be incinerated, either. No matter how creatively he spins it, his pods are going into the landfill along with millions of pounds of other useless crap. (Oops, did I really say that? ;-)
I believe there is a conflict between the following statement on your website...
> Together with its strict adherence to pollution and environmental laws, > illycaffè also places utmost importance on promoting > environmentally-friendly practices
...and the development of your HyperEspresso pods.
The two-part plastic used in these pods cannot be recycled with current technology. It is NOT environmentally friendly. Please find ways to pre-package your coffee in truly recyclable containers.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,312 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 7:53am Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
After listening to his podcast, I can really know how much he knows about espresso. It might be easier than to read his book.
About the reason for choosing only robusta beans, he said only the tastes when it was brewing seperately. It tastes bad? Yes, but not so for blending.
Let's take another example, like spicy, you almost never enjoy it as a single origin object, but when mixed with vegetables or meats, it can be great.
About the brewing of espresso, I do not hear much neither much confidence of him for brewing and education, even if they have so-called University of Coffee, which offer "Master" degree after courses in three days, if I remember well. Are they serious?
About the hyper espresso, I can see nothing more than pod system, or similars from many Italian manufacturers.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 8:18am Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
andys Said:
And in North America the plastic is not going to be incinerated, either. No matter how creatively he spins it, his pods are going into the landfill along with millions of pounds of other useless crap. (Oops, did I really say that? ;-)
I agree. I haven't done any kind of investigative research into the North American recycling of plastics to know if there's any process that's significantly effective to recycle cast off plastic back into industry. I have a feeling that it's not too much and that more plastic gets dumped into land fills than is recycled. How much, I don't know.
That would be a problem with North America, though. Very slow on developing and adopting affective recycling technology. Incineration is being proposed in the province where I'm living but residents near the proposed site are trying to kill the plan. The plan is to emulate current incinerating technologies already in use.
Still I totally agree the way to keep garbage from piling up in landfills is to either make it 100% recyclable or biodegradable from the get go. Focus should be on the packaging and product not on what do we do with it once it becomes garbage.
I agree too that Andre Illy is probably not used to giving out interviews in North America let alone at all so his comments reflect more of his European understanding of stuff like recycling . I think at one point he used 800F as a finishing temp for a roast. That must have been a mistake converting C to F in his head or he was just guessing. Or maybe I heard wrong.
The_Mighty_Bean Senior Member Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 465 Location: Bowie, MD Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: "Beauty" (the gentle and... Grinder: Gi-normous Rossi RR45; 100... Vac Pot: Have my eye on a Yama Drip: French press purist, have a... Roaster: Hairdryer and a wire whisk....
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 1:24pm Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
pstam Said:
About the hyper espresso, I can see nothing more than pod system, or similars from many Italian manufacturers.
Yes. I keep waiting for the day when a pod entrepreneur comes out with airtight pods that have been individually flash-frozen, nitrogen flushed and vac-sealed immediately after the dose has been ground. Shouldn't be prohibitively difficult given modern industrial capability, and could possibly make pod espresso respectable in terms of freshness, even if not truly gourmet. Of course it all comes down to marketing to convince consumers to pay for that kind of care in manufacturing.
mrgnomer Said:
I think at one point he used 800F as a finishing temp for a roast.
Pedrito Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3 Location: The Netherlands Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso steel duo Grinder: Elektra
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008, 3:02pm Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
In the last part of the Interview was the most remarkable anwser from Illy:
"CG: In Italy, where do you go to get coffee?
Illy: At home! For breakfast I use the moka, which we developed a new system with in partnership with Bialetti, and then immediately after breakfast I start getting my espressos, here or at the bar with a professional machine.
He uses the MOKA ! when we all are discussing about super machines like Elektra, ACM, Brasilia etc , he uses the MOKA......makes you think
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