Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Articles: CoffeeGeek Columnist Feedback
The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Articles > Columnist... > The Science of...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
nobbi4711
Senior Member
nobbi4711
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 334
Location: Germany
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Dallacorte Mini EX4
Grinder: Casadio Instantaneous
Vac Pot: none
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Mini-500/800N drum roaster;...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2008, 3:10am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

andys Said:

Illy Coffee appears to be in a class of its own. They do a lot of cutting-edge stuff, like the blending, the automated optical sorting, etc, then ruin it all with their packaging designed for ultra-long shelf life. Oh well....

Posted January 16, 2008 link

Full Ack. I used to do some experimenting with the 3kg business cans, and the result was terrible. Illy Arabica after 2 months is rubbish, just like any other Arabica after that time. Maybe still some taste but almost no crema left.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

If *$ is "the McDonald's of Espresso" in a restaurant/café situation, Ily is the "Taster's Choice of the espresso home market."  Consistency is prized over technique, convenience is prized over quality, brand loyalty is prized over freshness.

Posted January 17, 2008 link

Also Full Ack. Don't even think that the few thousands of geeks in the world are a target market for a roaster as big as Illy.

I think the Illy family is not only a family of coffee and chemistry experts; they are also marketing experts. By declaring that only Arabica espresso is good espresso a lot of years ago, the made all other Italian roasters to 2nd class roasters. Strangely enough, nobody ever (esp here in Germany) asked if the Illy espresso is really the best.... I don't like it that much (even if it's fresh), I think the best espresso has a small robusta amount of 10 to 20%. But's that's just my 2cent (and those of millions of Italians...*jibing*)

Greetings \\//

Marcus
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,342
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2008, 6:32am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

Yes, you are totally right.

About their 3 kg tin package, I would know if they can make 1 kg of tin for pressured package.  That makes a big difference.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
MarkPrince
Moderator
MarkPrince
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,515
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Compak K10 WBC
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 3:03am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

I have to admit shaking my head when reading the recycling / sustainable aspects of the plastic pods. Gnomer's comments help clear up some things, but I can't help but go "where's the biodegradability" of the plastic involved.

Also, I don't think Andrea Illy gives out many interviews, could be wrong on that... but: After the publication of this article, I was contacted by three different media sources in Italy who wanted to quote some (or all) of the interview.

For me - when I previewed this article before it was published, I was seriously jonesin'. Liz is a fantastic writer, and a great addition to the CoffeeGeek team. I can't wait for her next article!

Mark

 
CoffeeGeek Senior Editor
www.twitter.com/coffeegeek www.flickr.com/coffeegeek, www.instagram.com/coffeegeek (you get the picture)
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 813
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 5:32am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

MarkPrince Said:

I have to admit shaking my head when reading the recycling / sustainable aspects of the plastic pods. Gnomer's comments help clear up some things, but I can't help but go "where's the biodegradability" of the plastic involved.

Posted January 20, 2008 link

mrgnomer Said:

I think Illy's answer to the use of plastics was reasonable.  It's up to the consumer to either divert the plastic to recycling or throw it in the garbage.  It think when he was referring to the plastic as a potetial fuel source he was referring to incineration which is more popular in Europe.

Posted January 18, 2008 link

Sorry to dwell on this, but there is no way these plastic things are going to be recycled. With current technology it is not economically feasible to recycle an object with one type of plastic embedded in another (as Illy describes). I reread the interview to look for the section stating that Illycafe was donating ten billion dollars to develop the technology and infrastructure to do so, but I can't seem to find it.

And in North America the plastic is not going to be incinerated, either. No matter how creatively he spins it, his pods are going into the landfill along with millions of pounds of other useless crap. (Oops, did I really say that?  ;-)

I just sent an email to info@illyusa.com:

Dear Illy:

I believe there is a conflict between the following statement on your website...

> Together with its strict adherence to pollution and environmental laws,
> illycaffè also places utmost importance on promoting
> environmentally-friendly practices

...and the development of your HyperEspresso pods.

The two-part plastic used in these pods cannot be recycled with current technology. It is NOT environmentally friendly. Please find ways to pre-package your coffee in truly recyclable containers.


 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,342
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 7:53am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

After listening to his podcast, I can really know how much he knows about espresso.  It might be easier than to read his book.

About the reason for choosing only robusta beans, he said only the tastes when it was brewing seperately.  It tastes bad?  Yes, but not so for blending.

Let's take another example, like spicy, you almost never enjoy it as a single origin object, but when mixed with vegetables or meats, it can be great.


About the brewing of espresso, I do not hear much neither much confidence of him for brewing and education, even if they have so-called University of Coffee, which offer "Master" degree after courses in three days, if I remember well.  Are they serious?

About the hyper espresso, I can see nothing more than pod system, or similars from many Italian manufacturers.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
mrgnomer
Senior Member
mrgnomer
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 2,286
Location: NA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano, Silvia, Olympia...
Grinder: Zass., Macap M4 stepless,...
Vac Pot: Yama, Bodum E Santos
Drip: French Press, ibrik, Moka...
Roaster: Hottop programmable, IRoast2
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 8:18am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

andys Said:

And in North America the plastic is not going to be incinerated, either. No matter how creatively he spins it, his pods are going into the landfill along with millions of pounds of other useless crap. (Oops, did I really say that?  ;-)

Posted January 20, 2008 link

I agree.  I haven't done any kind of investigative research into the North American recycling of plastics to know if there's any process that's significantly effective to recycle cast off plastic back into industry.  I have a feeling that it's not too much and that more plastic gets dumped into land fills than is recycled.  How much, I don't know.

That would be a problem with North America, though.  Very slow on developing and adopting affective recycling technology.  Incineration is being proposed in the province where I'm living but residents near the proposed site are trying to kill the plan.  The plan is to emulate current incinerating technologies already in use.

Still I totally agree the way to keep garbage from piling up in landfills is to either make it 100% recyclable or biodegradable from the get go.  Focus should be on the packaging and product not on what do we do with it once it becomes garbage.

I agree too that Andre Illy is probably not used to giving out interviews in North America let alone at all so his comments reflect more of his European understanding of stuff like recycling .  I think at one point he used 800F as a finishing temp for a roast.  That must have been a mistake converting C to F in his head or he was just guessing.  Or maybe I heard wrong.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Link to this post
trmc
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 72
Location: tn
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: gaggia carezza
Grinder: Hand grinder(old...
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 8:34am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

The recycling sounds more like marketing hype than fact.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
The_Mighty_Bean
Senior Member
The_Mighty_Bean
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 465
Location: Bowie, MD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: "Beauty"  (the gentle and...
Grinder: Gi-normous Rossi RR45; 100...
Vac Pot: Have my eye on a Yama
Drip: French press purist, have a...
Roaster: Hairdryer and a wire whisk....
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2008, 1:24pm
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

pstam Said:

About the hyper espresso, I can see nothing more than pod system, or similars from many Italian manufacturers.

Posted January 20, 2008 link

Yes. I keep waiting for the day when a pod entrepreneur comes out with airtight pods that have been individually flash-frozen, nitrogen flushed and vac-sealed immediately after the dose has been ground.   Shouldn't be prohibitively difficult given modern industrial capability, and could possibly make pod espresso respectable in terms of freshness, even if not truly gourmet.     Of course it all comes down to marketing to convince consumers to pay for that kind of care in manufacturing.  



mrgnomer Said:

I think at one point he used 800F as a finishing temp for a roast.

Posted January 20, 2008 link

Oh, cool! I had no idea Illy was going into partnership with Starbucks.

;)


~tMb
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,342
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008, 5:11am
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

The_Mighty_Bean Said:

Oh, cool! I had no idea Illy was going into partnership with Starbucks.

Posted January 20, 2008 link


It might be the general understanding that SUCCESS plus SUCCESS get a bigger SUCCESS.  It is a general way of thinking of business.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
Pedrito
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Location: The Netherlands
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Ascaso steel duo
Grinder: Elektra
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: The Science of Coffee: Andrea Illy in NYC by Liz Clayton
 

In the last part of the Interview was the most remarkable anwser from Illy:

"CG: In Italy, where do you go to get coffee?

Illy: At home! For breakfast I use the moka, which we developed a new system with in partnership with Bialetti, and then immediately after breakfast I start getting my espressos, here or at the bar with a professional machine.



He uses the MOKA ! when we all are discussing about super machines like Elektra, ACM, Brasilia etc , he uses the MOKA......makes you think
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Articles > Columnist... > The Science of...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.352350950241)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+