Exclusive: a sneak peak and detailed look at a new potentially revolutionary grinder accessory and grinder from Baratza that doses specific volumes via user-selectable weight: the Esatto and Vario-E products.
How many seconds do you loose (sic) in dumping grounds into a portafilter? Are they that costly? Chill.
What exciting news though! Even if the first run is buggy, it's a big step to see integrated scales on the consumer market. I do wish they had a solution for existing Varios though. I can't afford a new grinder just yet, but I am itching to toss my current Salter scale. I can just imagine how much more smoothly my mornings would go with the weighing streamlined in!
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 4:32am Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing
Mark, You lost us on the point about waste in a cafe setting. Every shop I've been to that does single cup brewing well premeasures doses and runs them through a Guatemala or Ditting or similar grinder. There's no waste above whatever it takes to dial in a particular coffee to determine the correct dose. And you can run any coffee at any time during service as long as you have it pre-dosed (which is simple to do). So we're not getting the point on savings. Are we missing something here?
mute Senior Member Joined: 29 Nov 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Collegeville, PA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bodum French Press
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 7:04am Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
I should preface this post with saying that I am in the market for a grinder and the Vario is at the top of my list based on features and price (it's not winning any competitions in the looks department with all those dials and buttons).
That said, I sort of feel like this is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist (in it's current implementation anyway). We'll all agree that weight based dosing is better (more accurate) than timed dosing.
If, as the article said, +/- .2-.5g resolution is considered acceptable, where is the need for a weight based dosing mechanism if a timer based mechanism is able to dole out the same amount of coffee at a significantly lower price? Are timer based Varios able to accomplish that?
Furthermore, a timer based Vario does not remove your ability to grind directly into a portafilter, removing the need to transfer grinds from a grind catcher into a portafilter. I do think that a smaller insert for the grind catcher would be a must have for espresso grinding with a Vario-e.
In my case when I do want to weigh my dose (when I want to verify that my grinder is dialed in, when using a new blend of coffee, etc) the act of grinding into a vessel to weigh (on the digital .1g resolution scale I paid $7 for shipped) does not add an appreciable amount of time to the process.
I think for something like this to be really revolutionary, a grinder would need to grind into a weighing chamber, then dole out the completed dose into a portafilter. It seems like a step in the right direction though..
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 7:25am Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
mute Said:
I should preface this post with saying that I am in the market for a grinder and the Vario is at the top of my list based on features and price (it's not winning any competitions in the looks department with all those dials and buttons).
That said, I sort of feel like this is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist (in it's current implementation anyway). We'll all agree that weight based dosing is better (more accurate) than timed dosing.
If, as the article said, +/- .2-.5g resolution is considered acceptable, where is the need for a weight based dosing mechanism if a timer based mechanism is able to dole out the same amount of coffee at a significantly lower price? Are timer based Varios able to accomplish that?
Furthermore, a timer based Vario does not remove your ability to grind directly into a portafilter, removing the need to transfer grinds from a grind catcher into a portafilter. I do think that as the a smaller insert for the grind catcher would be a must have for espresso grinding with a Vario-e.
In my case when I do want to weigh my dose (when I want to verify that my grinder is dialed in, when using a new blend of coffee, etc) the act of grinding into a vessel to weigh (on the digital .1g resolution scale I paid $7 for shipped) does not add an appreciable amount of time to the process.
I think for something like this to be really revolutionary, a grinder would need to grind into a weighing chamber, then dole out the completed dose into a portafilter. It seems like a step in the right direction though..
+1. Although the grinder does look like a good sell for OCD's.
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
kschendel Senior Member Joined: 7 Nov 2008 Posts: 267 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Maestro Roaster: Freshroast
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 7:52am Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
mute Said:
If, as the article said, +/- .2-.5g resolution is considered acceptable, where is the need for a weight based dosing mechanism if a timer based mechanism is able to dole out the same amount of coffee at a significantly lower price? Are timer based Varios able to accomplish that?
I would think so, but after you calibrate the timer. That's the step that is eliminated by direct weighing. You no longer need to go through a few grinds, starting with a timer guess, in order to zero in on the desired result weight. You get it directly.
Obviously, if all of the household users of the grinder are either going after the same target weight, or are willing to do the time calibration whenever needed, you don't need the weight based mechanism. If I were in the market for a new grinder, I'd likely go for the weight scale, partly just because I like the idea of measuring the relevant variable directly instead of inferring it indirectly.
jammin Senior Member Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 658 Location: Boise Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Speedster, Cremina Grinder: K10, Vario-W with Ditting... Vac Pot: Hario Drip: manual Roaster: quest m3, hottop b
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 8:37am Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
kschendel Said:
after you calibrate the timer. That's the step that is eliminated by direct weighing. You no longer need to go through a few grinds, starting with a timer guess, in order to zero in on the desired result weight. You get it directly.
not to mention, the grinding speed changes with grind setting; so your grind better be on before you started changing the timer. then when you change beans.. blah blah blah.
dosing by weight is far superior to dosing by time as far as accuracy is concerned.
if you're worried about pouring into the PF, get a dosing funnel from Orphan Espresso - they are good tool to have anyway. If you're cheap - use a yogurt cup.
Personally - I think weighing before hand and dosing into PF with the Vario is the most practical solution.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2011, 1:02pm Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing
AldoCoffee Said:
Mark, You lost us on the point about waste in a cafe setting. Every shop I've been to that does single cup brewing well premeasures doses and runs them through a Guatemala or Ditting or similar grinder. There's no waste above whatever it takes to dial in a particular coffee to determine the correct dose. And you can run any coffee at any time during service as long as you have it pre-dosed (which is simple to do). So we're not getting the point on savings. Are we missing something here?
It's just how that cafe works their Precisos - they have two, hoppers full, and grind for different volumes. They grind a guestimated amount and weight the grinds in the pourover. if they go over, they scoop out and dump the coffee edit - they scoop from the bin till they hit their target weight, then dump out the rest. I think they do it this way because they use the precisos for pourover and press pot, and keeping a stash of premeasured whole beans around for the variety of brewing sizes (x2 because there's two coffees offered) would be a pita.
The main thing here is that cafes will no longer have to have premeasured whole bean (takes up space, plus time to measure and sort) and have to use the hopper when almost empty (takes longer to grind) - they can dial in three volumes plus change them at any time, press a button and voila, the grinder has dosed out an exact amount for use in their brewing method.
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