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Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
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MarkPrince
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Posted Tue May 17, 2011, 1:00am
Subject: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine

Our exclusive and detailed First Look at one of the most exciting and innovative new espresso machines coming to market in 2011, from Australia's Breville - the dual boiler, dual PID controlled BES900(XL) espresso machine.
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EricBNC
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Neat first look - $1,299 minus the standard 20% off Bed Bath & Beyond coupon, hmmm...

Could you tell from the prototype if the machine will be serviceable by the owner?

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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Woody
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 8:37am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Nice write-up.   Allow me to be the first to ask.....ahem.......plumbed in version on the drawing board?

Jon
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Nathan
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 8:55am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Looks good. Though I still have my doubts about Breville. Even if this machine is amazing, the price puts it against a lot of other machines that have more pedigree and a user base that can comment on it's faults and qualities.

Where's the e61? We're relying on their heater grouphead to work as well as they say it will. I think there are some other really compelling plumbed-in, rotary-pump, e-61 based machines out there for about this price, though the Breville does appear to have some little tiny features that others won't do.
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Spitz
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 10:21am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

I'm not sure I've seen a dual-boiler machine for 1200-ish new.  The price is substantially lower than the more sought-after DB machines, IMO.  Quite frankly, and I feel confident to assume that, most people will choose the other tried and true options.  Breville, with respect to coffee, leaves a kind of sour taste in my mouth, just because.  Really, whether my feelings are warranted or not, this is the kind of HUGE HURDLE that Breville will have to overcome.  Can they become a name synonymous with the other big players in Espresso equipment manufacturing?  It won't happen overnight, and this machine will be a great start - unless it fails miserably as a robust, ever-lasting product.
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randytsuch
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 12:00pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Minor nit
A picture is blocking the first paragraph or so (at least it is in my browser, which is standard win xp explorer)

Comment on the machine
I don't know of any DB at $1300, the Expobar Brewtus was the cheapest I know of, the IV with vib pump is $1950 - 10% at WLL.

Even E61 HX machines are more then this, they are at least $1500 from what I remember.

You can get some HX machines, Expobar's, Oscar's and a couple of the Bezzera's for around $1000 or a little more, so they are not much cheaper, and they are HX also not E61s.

The Bezzera BZ07 has a electric group heater like this, but they don't have a PID on their group heater, I think the electric PID'ed group heater is a GREAT idea.

IMO, for the money, you get a lot of cool stuff with this machine.  Long term reliability would be my biggest question for Breville, and we won't know that for a while

BTW, Breville seems to have a better rep in Austrailia then here, and it looks like it is getting released there first. There is a long thread here
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1301294820/0
but I didn't read it all, I have a feeling there are a lot of questions in there.

Randy

Randy
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Nathan
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 12:11pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

I think their biggest hurdle is that they will probably always sell the crappy units as well as this. Rancilio only sells the Silvia for the home. Whether you like it or not you have to admit it's very good for its class. Breville makes machines that are in a low price point and a very low class. So there is always going to be people saying they hate Breville whether they had the option for the better one or not.

As for the price, I believe there are comparable machines to this, but I think I'm thinking HX and not DB. But at any rate this machine is maybe the lower end of that class. And since the prices aren't set yet, we don't know where they're going to land. +/- 20% would be a pretty big deal.

I also see a lot of silicone cables in there, even from the boiler to the steam wand. I'm not really sure about that.
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MarkPrince
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 12:52pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Nathan Said:

Where's the e61? We're relying on their heater grouphead to work as well as they say it will. I think there are some other really compelling plumbed-in, rotary-pump, e-61 based machines out there for about this price, though the Breville does appear to have some little tiny features that others won't do.

Posted May 18, 2011 link

In my opinion, the E-61 grouphead design is antiquated, and has some problems, esp. in modern day machines. Much less so if on a PID dual boiler, but more so when on a HX feed. It's also a variable temperature on a HX feed.

They went for the active heated solid grouphead choice because they also chose to control the grouphead's heat with a PID on its own (the machine has two). The PID-controlled grouphead heat helps further stabilize brewing temperatures. Seemed like a really smart choice to me. In practice, the Scace readings showed that.

I've Scaced many HX / E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. This one stays within 1F.

Mark

 
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,582
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Compak K10 WBC
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 12:55pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

randytsuch Said:

Minor nit
A picture is blocking the first paragraph or so (at least it is in my browser, which is standard win xp explorer)

Posted May 18, 2011 link

Which version of IE? I tested it in the current version, and in Firefox 3 and 4 (and Safari) before publishing.

Re Breville's rep and such. I forgot to mention two things in this first look, which I may include in more detail

a) This comes with a 2 year warranty, at least in Australia; US/Canada may match that
b) Breville torture tested these machines to a 10 year endurance. A lot of this is detailed on the Australian Coffeesnobs forum.

Mark

 
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randytsuch
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Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

MarkPrince Said:

Which version of IE? I tested it in the current version, and in Firefox 3 and 4 (and Safari) before publishing.

Re Breville's rep and such. I forgot to mention two things in this first look, which I may include in more detail

a) This comes with a 2 year warranty, at least in Australia; US/Canada may match that
b) Breville torture tested these machines to a 10 year endurance. A lot of this is detailed on the Australian Coffeesnobs forum.

Mark

Posted May 18, 2011 link

Explorer version 8.0.6001.18702
128 bit security (if that matters)

As far as reliability, the two year warranty is obviously a good thing.
I was also wondering if Breville sells spare parts to keep it going?

I just bought a Expobar Office control, and I am pretty sure WLL sells any special part I would need, and I can get the common parts from a bunch of places.  So, I am pretty sure I can keep this machine going for many years to come.

In my quick look at your pics, it would appear that the Breville does not use many "standard" parts, and you would have to get the parts from Breville, to repair the machine.  Just wondering if that would be easy to do.

Randy
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