Lady_Croft Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Michigan Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Mar 23, 2008, 6:26pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
True, mathew, you are right, and make a good point. Then I also loathe the coffee Equipment company for selling out!! It was CEC's decision ultimately, and I'm truly disappointed in that decision. Everyones' out for the money I guess. However, I have equal disdain for Starbucks, as an ex-partner, I know what they're all about and it's not coffee. So I still hate them for thinking they could make good use of the Clover, which I'm sure they see as just another way to catapult sales.
Terry_L Senior Member Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Louisville-KY Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Coffee Grinder: Solis Scala 166 Vac Pot: French-Press(s)-Love 'em Drip: Bunn Roaster: SC/TO - Air Popper
Posted Sun Mar 23, 2008, 7:16pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
Lady_Croft Said:
...... Then I also loathe the coffee Equipment company for selling out!! It was CEC's decision ultimately, and I'm truly disappointed in that decision.
The fact the the Clover will now be exclusive to Starbucks and will therefore ever only brew Starbucks beans rather defeats the original purpose of and vision for the machine, methinks. Ah, the lure of the fast (mega)buck.
Hmm, let me put myself in that position.....I'm an inventor, and I invent a widget...Apparently, it's a cool widget, and commands a pretty hefty price. Now company X wants to purchase several of these (hundreds? THOUSANDS???) Naw, I'd really rather only sell 15 of them to a few trendy places. I can eat mac & cheese for dinner next month.....hmmm tough decision. I personally wouldn't care if they used my widget to breed earthworms in...as long as they're paying me the price I need to make a nice profit.
ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 373 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Sun Mar 23, 2008, 8:18pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
I had to smile as I read these new posts. Man, this is some really serious stuff!
I love coffee, but Man! Get a life! It isn't the end of the world you know!
First of all, I have Starbucks to thank for my introduction to specialty coffee...and although I really don't like their coffee now, it started me on this journey, and for that, I thank them. They will do the same for many others, who don't take coffee as seriously as we do. And that will be very good for specialty coffees, because as they say in Columbia, once you taste real coffee, you can never go back! ;)
So, someone made an invention, and now it is in the hands of the evil twin. Someone else will come up with something else that is just as good, if not better! Honestly, I have tasted a Clover drink, and I'll take a Manic Cappuccino anyday! Those have to be the best cappuccino's I've ever tasted! Thanks Manic Coffee! You rock! Anyway, I am looking forward to tasting other awesome drinks from other machines in other places. It is all good for me.
jweaver Senior Member Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 12:47pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
Starbuck's was also my first real coffee, then came Peet's, Counter Culture and Intelligentsia. Yet coffee from the clover was exactly the best I have ever had. Coffee, not espresso or espresso drinks. It is a shame that SB will limit the machine to their stores, but I am sure someone will create something in the place of clover. It really does not matter that it is Starbucks limiting the clover, any corporation that acts like a monopoly will always face opposition...
jazzkj Senior Member Joined: 17 Sep 2007 Posts: 15 Location: Maine Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky Drip: French Press
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 1:48pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
It is purely speculation, as far as I understand, to say at this point how or to whom Starbucks will offer the Clover. They very well may decide to sell it to other coffee purveyors. I understand that it may be unlikely that Starbucks would do this, but it is not a forgone conclusion.
Furthermore, as much as I think Starbucks could improve, their pursuit is ultimately good coffee. That much is certain. Sure they want machinery that makes a splash, but they also want a consistently good cup of coffee for every customer. Hence, spending millions on automation.
I can understand why a coffee geek might prefer another vendor for drinks and beans. I most often do. However, the level of animus toward Starbucks is egregious and probably unfounded.
I think all of our coffee experiences and opportunities will continue to be better, whether Starbucks, the Clover, or whomever else offers that experience. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 2:10pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
My fear, based on past experience with Starbucks takeovers, is that the Clover becomes a Starbucks exclusive. I don't really regret the inventors selling the rights to their product; several years' hard work turned into financial reward? Sounds like the American dream.
But, does anyone remember the Coffee Connection?
The Coffee Connection was George Howell's Boston-area chain of coffee cafes and stores, started in the late 80s. It was my first introduction to coffee snobbery and I took to with great enthusiasm. My first grinder (whirly-blade), my first serious tastings of variety, my first upturned nose towards Folgers (sorry Mom).
After a dozen or so years, Starbucks bought him out. They said they would keep his standards, his roasts, his line of products. The trademark "Frappucino" came from the CC.
They lied. Their versions of his roasts were done in Seattle or wherever, and shipped around. No roast date was available, no knowledge of his zeal for excellence, no real promotion of his separate line. People stopped buying it, Starbucks stopped selling it. An audience of avid fans died on the vine; we weren't part of their vision it seems.
In other words, their purchase of the CC was to corner the market, not to really help people to appreciate coffee more, nor for Starbucks to learn anything from anybody. They already know all that they want to know.
I find it hard to believe that $* has somehow changed their tactic here. Why would they continue to sell something that they can enhance the experience by promoting as a "Starbucks Exclusive!!!!!!111"? Why would they give anyone else the ability to say they could produce something superior with the same machine? My hopes are low.
Starbucks is not inherently evil, but they are focused on profitability above all else. They didn't really focus on changing things recently until they were seeing profitability problems-- but people have been complaining to them and about them ever since they went nationwide. (And now McDonalds coffee is better than Starbucks? Oh, the shame.) The "experience" is their gimmick to higher profitability, so anything that gets in the way of that is a prime target.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,653 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 2:12pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
The following isn't speculation:
- Starbucks plans to keep the Clover exclusive to themselves. No more sales to third parties
- Starbucks will be shutting off every service currently offered to existing Clover owners, save for one (shutting down Clovernet 60 days after this purchase date by the Big Green; no more training; no more support for distributors; no more "bug fixes" or advancements in the product). The only "service" they're continuing is parts availability, and warranty periods.
- existing distributor networks are left high and dry.
There is no indication that CEC "went to bat" for their existing customers or distributor network when making this deal with Starbucks. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, but they've been completely silent officially about it, only stating in a terse manner on their website that parts will be available for some time.
For me, the most disturbing thing is how the people who really built up the Clover, outside of CEC at least, are pretty much screwed over by this deal. If there were any indication that CEC tried to maintain status quo for existing owners and distributors, I'd probably feel a bit more charitable about the deal, but there has been no such indications.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with a (now former) Clover distributor: this deal isn't about Starbucks elevating the quality in their chain cafes, or about making a better cup of coffee. This deal is about Starbucks quite officially co-opting and taking over ownership of the word "freshness" against their chief rivals: McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts. The Clover is the only non-espresso coffee brewing system available for commercial business today that produces a brewed on demand, fresh cup of coffee. You want a coffee? 90 seconds after you order one, a cup is made specifically for you - a cup that didn't exist in grind, brew, or container 90 seconds previously.
When the McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, Tim Hortons, Second Cups, heck, 7--11s of the world claim 'fresh coffee', Starbucks simply has to show a picture of an airpot and say "You call that fresh?" as a counter, and show they truly are the only big chain that can offer fresh coffee.
That is why they bought the Clover. It's not about quality. It's about marketing.
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 2:18pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
MarkPrince Said:
For me, the most disturbing thing is how the people who really built up the Clover, outside of CEC at least, are pretty much screwed over by this deal. If there were any indication that CEC tried to maintain status quo for existing owners and distributors, I'd probably feel a bit more charitable about the deal, but there has been no such indications.
I will bet that this kind of cutting off your partners at their knees is the result of a higher offer on Starbucks' part. I could easily see them increasing the payment for the rights if the owners would just stop their support of anyone they'd ever promoted their machine to.
Money wins over righteousness far too often (IMHO).
mikep Senior Member Joined: 9 Nov 2004 Posts: 727 Location: Illinois Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Red Expobar OC / Gaggia... Grinder: Cimbali Jr/ Solis Maestro... Roaster: Hearthware Precision
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 2:18pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
I will be interested to see if the Clover name has enough value to Starbucks for them to keep it. It seems like they might change it to some italian-sounding word like 'vacissimo' (hard 'c' sound).
ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 373 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 2:31pm Subject: Re: Starbucks buys Coffee Equipment Company, makers of the Clover
Is CEC traded on the stock market? If it is, there may have been no options for the originators of the clover. Regardless, from a business point of view, it was a smart thing to do. What the impact will be is another story. It would be really sad if Starbucks uses their charred coffee for the clover. If they don't, however, you may see good things start to happen...slowly.
As you can see, my cappuccino bias came out there. I don't drink brewed, filtered, or percolated coffee any more. Some good points have been made though. Time will tell.
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