CaptainObvious Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Omaha Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Nov 23, 2002, 2:44pm Subject: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
I've had coffee machine for a few weeks, and the grinder for about a month.
I've varied the grind setting on the Maestro from one setting bigger than the drip indicator, to 4 settings smaller.
I've varied the amount of coffee from a tablespoon less than 1/2 cup, all the way to 2/3 cup.
I've tried coffee from different sources including Peet's, Gloria Jeans, and a local roaster.
I've tried coffee of different roasts and varieties such as a Tan Peaberry, Dark Columbian, a dark Sumatra, and Pete's 101 blend.
I've used both the gold filter, and an unbleached paper filter.
The water I use is from a Pur Ultimate faucet filter, and has no real odors.
I've measured the temp in the brew basket. My digital thermometer is about 4.5 degrees low in boiling water (not sure my elevation), and I'm reading 197 degrees in the brew basket. This would put me near 201 degrees.
I really can't explain what is going on. The taste is best described (by me) as a bitter rubber or rancid flavor. The bitterness compounds as I drink the coffee. If I simply run water through the machine, the water isn't bitter (although there is plenty of resdual flavor from the machine). I don't think cleanliness is the issue because the first cup out of the machine was bitter... in fact I returned the coffee I used informing the store that is was rancid... ooops.
I've suspected the caraffe... maybe I could rig the drip-stop and test that theory. There is a rubber O-ring in there that I imagine could impart an off flavor (I know, I'm really reaching here).
I've focused on the coffee machine because I used this grinder with a Cuisinart I owned (and returned because it didn't brew hot enough).
Does anyone else own this coffee maker/grinder combination? Have you experienced this? I was also wondering what settings people are using on the grinder, and how much ground coffee (in Tablespoons) they are using for this machine.
Also, I end up with sediment in the pot regardless of the setting I use on the Maestro when I use the gold filter. Is that common? It doesn't really bother me, but I'm wondering if my grinder isn't performing properly.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Nov 23, 2002, 3:37pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
I hate to sound ironic after all the laments about too low temperatures on filter brewers. Dark roasted coffees, i.e. chocolate colored beans glossy with oil, tend to taste bitter at brewing temperatures above about 198F. This may not be the reason for your problems, but it's worth checking. Try a lighter caramel colored roast and see if the problem persists.
CaptainObvious Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Omaha Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Nov 23, 2002, 9:10pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
The Tan Peaberry (I think that is what it is called), is a very light roast.
I was wondering if the brew temp is actually too hot on this machine. If the basket temp is 201-202F, the water has to be hotter than that. Maybe I'll try to put a slight chill on the beans or something before they are ground.
I will say that the water tank smells of something burnt... probably coffee. That may simply be explained by the fact that one lid covers the brew chamber and the water tank.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Nov 24, 2002, 6:16pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
CaptainObvious Said:
The Tan Peaberry (I think that is what it is called), is a very light roast.
I was wondering if the brew temp is actually too hot on this machine. If the basket temp is 201-202F, the water has to be hotter than that. Maybe I'll try to put a slight chill on the beans or something before they are ground.
I will say that the water tank smells of something burnt... probably coffee. That may simply be explained by the fact that one lid covers the brew chamber and the water tank.
I guess it's not the brew temperature. It's not stale coffee oils, since you've had it from the beginning.
The burnt smell in the tank isn't a good sign. Take a sniff around the brew mechanism while you're brewing an empty (so the coffee smell doesn't get in the way. It may be there's insulation or something getting fried. I doubt that's it, since you tried the brewed water before. But you've got me stumped otherwise.
CaptainObvious Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Omaha Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri Nov 29, 2002, 12:43pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
I decided to thoroughly clean everything I could on the grinder and the machine. This actually made a big difference. I'm really not sure which part was the major problem.
However, I noticed something interesting the other day. I take my carafe to work every morning. The first two cups I had the other day were simply outstanding. I poured a third cup for a colleague of mine, and a little later I poured a last cup for myself. My last cup was turning bitter/sour.
I'm left to wonder if the coffee reacts with the metal in the carafe, or if the residue in the bottom slowly turns bitter.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri Nov 29, 2002, 2:32pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
CaptainObvious Said:
I decided to thoroughly clean everything I could on the grinder and the machine. This actually made a big difference. I'm really not sure which part was the major problem.
However, I noticed something interesting the other day. I take my carafe to work every morning. The first two cups I had the other day were simply outstanding. I poured a third cup for a colleague of mine, and a little later I poured a last cup for myself. My last cup was turning bitter/sour.
I'm left to wonder if the coffee reacts with the metal in the carafe, or if the residue in the bottom slowly turns bitter.
In well run coffee store, the urns are emptied hourly since it's held that the coffee stales after that. This is apparently true of thermos storage as well.
Posted Fri Nov 29, 2002, 3:14pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
I think Jim's point about storage time is well taken. I use a glass lined thermal carafe at work and at home (boht kept scrupulously clean) and I use a steel lined Stanley/Aladdin thermos for road trips (not as scrupulously cleaned but still pretty good). Despite pre-heating etc., I find that after an hour or so the taste is noticeably different even if the coffee is still warm enough.
MokaLisa Senior Member Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Posts: 5 Location: Bow, WA Expertise: Aficionado
Espresso: Starbucks Barista Grinder: Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Never tried one Drip: Capresso MT500 Roaster: Air Popper
Posted Tue Dec 10, 2002, 12:16pm Subject: Re: MT500 + Solis Maestro = coffee always bitter. Any ideas?
Hello Captain - How strange. I have owned this same combo for a couple of months now, and have never had a bad cup (except from my first batch of home roasted beans, but we won't go there...) My first thought is to see if you removed the internal charcoal filter since you are already using filtered water. I use bottled water, so have never brewed a pot using the internal filter. However, you said the bitterness was only in the coffee, and that water alone tastes fine, so I guess that's not it. I'm stumped, too!
My tasts preferences lean toward medium to moderately dark roasted Central American single origin beans. I'm not sure any grind/dose info from me will helpful since you seem to prefer dark roasts. For what it's worth, though, I use about 15 level tablespoons of coffee per pot (46oz caraff = 7.6 six oz cups at 2 tbl each cup). I measured carefully the first few times, then started experimenting with the timer on the Maestro. I found that if I turn the timer handle 108 degrees, it grinds nearly the perfect 15 tbl dose every time. Sure beats measuring! I also find the "drip setting" a bit too course for my preference, and have mine set at 3 dots on the "fine" side of the drip icon. Again, I'm not suggesting that this will work for a very dark roast: a finer grind and a heavy dose will probably make your bitter problems worse. Let me know if you figure out the problem.
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