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TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality and tastes of coffee
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pstam
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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2013, 8:33am
Subject: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality and tastes of coffee
 

Maybe I am not updated, but any official research results in this field can confirm it?
If anyone know it, please let me know.

 
Peter in Beijing
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:34am
Subject: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality and tastes of coffee
 

pstam Said:

Maybe I am not updated, but any official research results in this field can confirm it?
If anyone know it, please let me know.

Posted February 7, 2013 link

Not by itself, no.  TDS and TDS percentage (the difference is the actual mass, and the percentage mass of the beverage) by itself is not sufficient to determine taste.

A 200g cup of coffee at 1.25% TDS would have the following properties:

Solution:
2.5g solute of Dissolved Coffee Solids and emulsified lipids
197.5g of water as a solvent

It has the approximate properties:
at 4°C, density around 1.006 g/ml, so 200g would occupy about 199 ml
at serving temperature of 60°C, a density of approximately 0.98 g/ml, so 200g would occupy about 204ml,
and close to brewing temperature of 90°C, a density of approximately 0.96-0.965, so 200g would occupy about 207-208ml.

Sidenote: Of course, volumetric measurements are very difficult to repeat with that type of accuracy.  Many volumetric measurement devices are not calibrated to handle changes in temperature properly.  A Pyrex measuring cup, for example, may be (SOMEWHAT) accurate only in a certain range of temperature (generally around room temperature), and become very inaccurate because of how the container changes volume with higher temperature.  

Also, the ratio of diameter to height of the measurement column is a significant factor in accurately measuring volume.  
Graduated cylinders are cylindrical for a reason, and they are very tall with respect to diameter to improve accuracy.  


Regarding taste, it's only when we start to understand and infer where and by what methods the dissolved solids come from that we can start to use TDS (in conjunction with the amount of coffee we used to get it) to understand taste.

A good source if you can find it:
The Coffee Brewing Handbook: A Systematic Guide to Coffee Preparation, by Ted Lingle.  Back when, this was a good source compendium of the initial Lockhart studies from the 1950's about flavor and strength.  Those were the basics behind the original brewing chart.

 
------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------
Le café doit être noir comme le diable,
 chaud comme l'enfer,  pur comme un ange,
   et doux comme l'amour.

"There is no right answer with coffee.  There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."

"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin
RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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pstam
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pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
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Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:05am
Subject: Re: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality ......
 

Thank you for your info, and I need more time to understand it carefully.
I couldn't ask any question before I understand it.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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Iluvdabean
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Posted Fri Feb 8, 2013, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality ......
 

Peter I read your Bio...You can take a complete newbie and make them a fully trained barista in 15 days?


pstam Said:

Thank you for your info, and I need more time to understand it carefully.
I couldn't ask any question before I understand it.

Posted February 8, 2013 link

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pstam
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pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,305
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 2:26am
Subject: Re: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality ......
 

Yes, we do.  It is about only coffee brewing, nothing else.
Normally, our trainees learnt to make coffee in our course and learnt to make other drinks while they start to work.  For other drinks, it does not take long time and make no mistakes.
If only about coffee, they can surely make good coffee as required by high quality standards.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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Netphilosopher
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Netphilosopher
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Expertise: Just starting

Grinder: OE Lido, Bodum Bistro Burr,...
Drip: CCD, Aeropress, occasional...
Roaster: BMHG, Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 2:12pm
Subject: Re: TDS, Do you believe that it can judge the brewing quality ......
 

pstam Said:

Thank you for your info, and I need more time to understand it carefully.
I couldn't ask any question before I understand it.

Posted February 8, 2013 link

没有问题

(Méiyǒu wèntí)

 
------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------
Le café doit être noir comme le diable,
 chaud comme l'enfer,  pur comme un ange,
   et doux comme l'amour.

"There is no right answer with coffee.  There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."

"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin
RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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 View Profile Link to this post
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