Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: General Discussion
Cream and sugar in your coffee?
Cafe Espresso Machines
Video reviews, nationwide installation, leasing options... Nuova Simonelli, Rancilio, La Marzocco.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > General > Cream and sugar...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
Goldensncoffee
Senior Member
Goldensncoffee
Joined: 9 Feb 2014
Posts: 76
Location: Pennsylvania
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Breville Smart, Skerton
Posted Sat Feb 22, 2014, 7:29am
Subject: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

Many years ago when I first started drinking coffee I would put cream and sugar in it. (I was about 13 years old). A good friend of mine got me drinking it black about 10 years ago. I'm almost 30 now.  Unfortunately I was drinking big chain burnt bean brew or supermarket coffee that whole time. Aside from this one friend, and my father who aren't coffee enthusiasts at all (yet) who drink their coffee black I don't really know of anyone. Everyone seems to dump their french vanilla creamer in there and add loads of sugar. Is this because most chain coffee places in our country have lousy coffee? I'm assuming you all drink your coffee black? (aside from a cap or latte).

I know coffee is enjoyed around the world. How do people in other countries drink their coffee? Is the cream/sugar just an american thing?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,203
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sat Feb 22, 2014, 9:01am
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

Apologies in advance for the long introduction:
We drink espresso, Aeropress, Chemex + Kone, Espro press, (regular) French press, and (balance beam) siphon.  

Linda has cream and sugar in all of them, except -- sometimes -- espresso.  Sometimes she has a latte, and sometimes she has something very much like a "long black," with cream (or half and half) and fake sugar.  Predictably, I prefer everything black.

We enjoy talking about our morning coffee, and I've learned over the years that Linda has an excellent palate which tastes through the cream and sugar to the coffee.  She not only really knows what's going on, but makes some very trenchant observations which don't fall into jargon.  I learn a lot from her and tend to base my roasting profiles more on what she prefers than on my own tastes or some "ideal."

It's not fair to separate caps and lattes from anything with cream, just as it's not fair to separate espress with sugar from other styles of brewing -- with sugar.  

In terms of other countries...
It depends on the country.  Italians like Mokapot at home, with plenty of sugar, and you see a lot of sugar getting stirred into espresso in the cafes..  Mexicans like cafe de la olla, especially for breakfast.  Cafe espresso Cubano (not that espresso made with sugar in the basket is always called Cubano) is popular all over Central Amerca.  They drink a lot of cafe au lait in France in the morning. I think there's some sort of law in France which says you have to start your weekends with it.

They call the same thing cafe con leche in Spain, and treat it more or less the same way.  When I lived in Salamanca in the late sixties, I was addicted to cafe con leche made with goat's milk.
From what I hear, Ozzies mostly either like their long blacks black or prefer their flat whites with sugar. I've spent a fair amount of time in the UK but remain without an impression of how they generally take their coffee. Great cafe scene in London, though.  And beer.  

And so it goes.

Rich
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Feb 22, 2014, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

Dear Goldens,

The question you ask has a long history.  My authority on this is the late Michael Sivetz*.  That name means nothing to you but to many who read this, it will.

For most of coffee history, the robusta coffee plant was cultivated.  Robusta coffee makes a bitter, strong brew.
Until very late, robusta was the only coffee available.  Coffee culture was hijacked by World War II in the sense that this was the start of the instant coffee technology.  I may be wrong, but I believe that instant coffee, unless labeled otherwise, is comprised of robusta, still.  As a result of the industry that grew up to get this valuable drug to our soldiers overseas, Americans became drinkers of instant coffee, which, in the post WWII years, was wholly robusta.  Milk greatly compensated for the taste of instant coffee.  Remember 4 o'clock coffee in A&P stores?  Even the percolators and drip grinds were robusta back then and benefitted from a dollop of milk.  In comparison, all of the artisianal roasts (okay, 95%) mentioned on Coffeegeek are Arabica coffee varieties.  That is background.  now to begin to answer your question.

There is a culinary concept known as a foil.  A foil compensates for an overbearing trait of accompanying food.  In the US and Europe, the dairy industry has been historically very strong and milk made the perfect foil for the bitterness of coffee.

In the semitropical/tropical countries such as Ethiopia, Turkey, Greece, South America, milk was hard to transport and didnt keep very well.  Sugar, however was plentiful and was the perfect foil for bitter coffee.  That is said to be why sweet coffees abound in these cultures.  Of course we are talking about historical times when refrigeration was unknown in the tropics and sugar was a luxury in the temperate zones.  The cultural trends persist to this day.

Interestingly, the process of steaming milk increases the solubility of lactose, milk sugar, and thereby increases the perception of its sweetness, providing a 'double-foil' (or 1-1/2 foil) against the bitterness of coffee.

With the Westernization of the entire world (sic transit gloria mundi), now the majoprity put both milk and sugar in coffee.

Buckley

*Coffee Technology [Michael Sivetz, Norman W. Desrosier] Publisher: Avi Pub Co (January 1979);
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Goldensncoffee
Senior Member
Goldensncoffee
Joined: 9 Feb 2014
Posts: 76
Location: Pennsylvania
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Breville Smart, Skerton
Posted Sat Feb 22, 2014, 3:33pm
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

You guys are good. You completely changed my thinking on "milk and sugar" in your coffee. The history lesson was fascinating and makes perfect sense.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Feb 22, 2014, 8:31pm
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

Sivetz devoted his life to coffee, to good effect; we are all richer in spirit for it.
B
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cerridwyn
Senior Member
cerridwyn
Joined: 6 Jun 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Inland Empire California
Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 9:36am
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

When I take someone out for coffee who has spent most of their life drinking either grocery store coffee or *$ and always light and sweet I suggest to them that they take a sip before they add anything to it. That they may find they need less whitener or sweetener. Some of those, when they go out with me, drink it black but they still don't drink coffee like that at home.

Modern artisan lighter roasted 3rd wave coffee is roasted to bring out the best of the bean. It is often somewhat sweet by itself. And every roast and every origin and every process and even brew style impacts on the taste.

One more story. I used to work in a location that when I came in used a Mr. Coffee type pot and made it with the darkest roasted cheap junk they could get and so strong they could stick a spoon in it. That because it was how the person that made the coffee liked it. Her cup of coffee probably had as much sugar in it as a wedding cake and was at least half milk (she did use non-fat). When I came, I was the boss. I was not quite the snob I am now and tossed the Mr. Coffee and brought in a Melitta Grind and Brew (I used to think those were the bomb). I bought high end 2nd wave coffee that was lighter roasted and I used less to brew it. She told me it was weak and she needed her coffee strong.

She called me a few years after I left there. I had moved on to a new job and better coffee (grin). Medically, she had to loose weight. They told her no sugar (okay she thought, I can use Splenda) and no dairy, and that this included non-dairy creamer in her coffee. She couldn't drink coffee the way she made it and had tried to give it up but was really unhappy after a couple of weeks. One of those who worked with her reminded her about what I had said about coffee. She went and got a lighter roast (still nothing I would drink but an improvement) and used the roasters recommended volume of beans, not the probably twice the amount she had been using. She said that she can now drink coffee again. No whitener and a little bit of artificial sweetener and told me how right I was.

There is no one right way to drink coffee, but those who you see at the gas station or *$ or wherever who just automatically toss the whitener and sweetener in their coffee without tasting it are doing it because they expect that black coffee tastes nasty and because it is habit.

Experiment for yourself. Decide what you like. There is no right or wrong. There is only what is right for you.

 
The world needs more outstanding coffee.

do you game?:
http://forum.paxcorvus.info
http://www.outland.org
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Goldensncoffee
Senior Member
Goldensncoffee
Joined: 9 Feb 2014
Posts: 76
Location: Pennsylvania
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Breville Smart, Skerton
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 3:21pm
Subject: Re: Cream and sugar in your coffee?
 

cerridwyn Said:

When I take someone out for coffee who has spent most of their life drinking either grocery store coffee or *$ and always light and sweet I suggest to them that they take a sip before they add anything to it.

Posted February 23, 2014 link

I've been doing this with my wife recently. She tries it before she puts the french vanilla creamer/sugar in. I made some FP coffee the other day (Ethiopia Sidama) and I put a "splash" of milk in it and about a 1/2 tsp of sugar. She thought it was great! I was happy.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > General > Cream and sugar...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.229111194611)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+