Posted Wed Apr 30, 2003, 7:55pm Subject: Kenya AA Top flavors
I posted this question on the Homeroast list but didn't get a response so I thought I'd try it here.
I have some of the Kenya AA Top from SM (not the newer Kenya lot which I bought but haven't roasted yet). On my first roast I found an interesting flavor on the front end that I couldn't identify. I'm thinking a baked fruit sort of flavor like cherry pie or blueberry muffin but not exactly.
The flavor was rather evanescent. It survived the thermos but was only present in the first few sips of each cup I poured and only on the front end of the sip.
I didn't get the flavor the second time I roasted this bean. I'm thinking I may have gone a little darker the second time and lost it. Has anyone noticed the flavor I'm talking about? If so, could you clue me in to a good roast level for achieving it? I only have enough beans for a few more batches and would like to get it back before they are gone.
Posted Thu May 1, 2003, 2:35am Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
jliedeka Said:
I posted this question on the Homeroast list but didn't get a response so I thought I'd try it here.
I have some of the Kenya AA Top from SM (not the newer Kenya lot which I bought but haven't roasted yet). On my first roast I found an interesting flavor on the front end that I couldn't identify. I'm thinking a baked fruit sort of flavor like cherry pie or blueberry muffin but not exactly.
The flavor was rather evanescent. It survived the thermos but was only present in the first few sips of each cup I poured and only on the front end of the sip.
I didn't get the flavor the second time I roasted this bean. I'm thinking I may have gone a little darker the second time and lost it. Has anyone noticed the flavor I'm talking about? If so, could you clue me in to a good roast level for achieving it? I only have enough beans for a few more batches and would like to get it back before they are gone.
I've noticed a Black Cherry taste from a couple of different Kenya beans. I generally roast just into start of 2nd crack (A lighter roast) in order to catch that elusive fruitiness.Jim S. has commented on the great taste also and I hope he'll comment in here. Anyway, Good Luck!
AArt Senior Member Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 51 Location: Timberville,VA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Jura F7 Drip: Melitta Mill 'n Brew Roaster: home made
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 9:36am Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
I note you use a variac. How would you describe your roasting profile for the Kenya, compared to the straight FR profile?
I have some KenyaAA from www.batianpeakcoffee.com. I like it, but it's not the creamy chocolatey taste I like in the mornings. Strictly a Sunday afternoon beverage for me.
I have blended it with Brazilian, resulting in what I can only describe as a bassoon-piccolo duet.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 11:00am Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
I heard a nice quip about Kenyas at the SCAA. They come in three flavors - lemon, berry, and horse sweat. Fortunately, we've got our greens sellers to filter out the horse sweat! There hasn't been a real good berry Kenya for a while, and now the Top AA and the Mika are garnering raves. However, I haven't tried them yet.
For brewed coffee, Kenya is my fave (along with Mochas and Harar). For espresso, one has to be careful. The Karumandi from last year had the best aroma I've ever had from any coffee period; but I couldn't make it work for espresso - the roast flavor that came out at full city was just too harsh. The Kaiwamururu I'm using now has a caramel roast flavor, and is much more tractable.
Here's a straight espresso blend that highlights Kenyas nicely:
25% Kenya
12.5% Mocha or DP Ethiopian (to add some complexity)
12.5% aged indo or monsooned malabar (to add body)
50% Brazil (as the base)
These all roast together nicely. The Kenya proportion will depend on it's acidity. 25% is about right for those Tom rates in 8.5 - 8.9 range.
I worked on this blend for a few months, strangely a home roaster on the German board gives an almost identical blend as his fave.
I'm still working on profiles, and don't understand as much about them as I thought I did. In particular, the taste effect of differently shaped roasting curves still mystefies me. However, that faster is brighter, slower more mellow, is certain. Also, if you're roasting full city and beyond, I think it's better to stall the roast at 445F - 450F and let the beans darken and 2nd crack at that temperature than to push the temperature higher. I think this keeps the sweet roast flavors, rather than converting them to ashy tastes.
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 3:32pm Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
AArt Said:
I note you use a variac. How would you describe your roasting profile for the Kenya, compared to the straight FR profile?
I have some KenyaAA from www.batianpeakcoffee.com. I like it, but it's not the creamy chocolatey taste I like in the mornings. Strictly a Sunday afternoon beverage for me.
I have blended it with Brazilian, resulting in what I can only describe as a bassoon-piccolo duet.
I generally follow more or less the same profile for all beans. The usual differences are in the timing.
I start high (115V) until the beans get moving. I back the voltage down to 105 slowly and generally throw in 1 to 3 30 second rests to even out the beans before the first crack.
Sometimes I'll boost the voltage a bit to drive the first crack, sometimes not. After the 1st crack I'll drop the voltage to around 100 so I can stretch the roast out and develop some body.
I've been experimenting with different finishes but haven't decided what I like best. I usually have to raise the heat a bit to get the 2nd crack started. Lately I've been cutting off the power and letting the beans roast themselves for about 45 seconds. I used to go for the fast finish. I haven't decided which finish I like best or if it varies with the type of bean.
ljguitar Senior Member Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 2,450 Location: Cheyenne Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulsar Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Solis Drip: Bunn Roaster: iRoast2
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 3:49pm Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
jliedeka Said:
I generally follow more or less the same profile for all beans. The usual differences are in the timing....I start high (115V) until the beans get moving. I back the voltage down to 105 slowly and generally throw in 1 to 3 30 second rests to even out the beans before the first crack..
Hi Jim... When I start my roasts, no matter which 'high' I choose on my Variac (115V-130+V), nor which beans or blends roasting, I end up burning several beans, which finish up looking like, feeling like and smelling like charcoal (later picked out of the roast by hand). I make sure the beans are 'rolling' when I start, but several always end up burning.
These briquettes I assume come from the bottom layer, and are just not moving up fast enough. I do not overdose the load - 2 heaping scoops.
Do you experience the same phenomena?
I am looking forward to getting my new FR+ to compare. Fan speed is supposed to be higher.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 5:08pm Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
ljguitar Said:
Hi Jim... When I start my roasts, no matter which 'high' I choose on my Variac (115V-130+V), nor which beans or blends roasting, I end up burning several beans, which finish up looking like, feeling like and smelling like charcoal (later picked out of the roast by hand). I make sure the beans are 'rolling' when I start, but several always end up burning.
I think this is a problem with the roast chambers that came with the "tweaked FR+". I have the original FR+, but immediately had the same problem when I started using the new chambers. Went from 85 to 75 grams as a consequence. Now that I've goosed the fan, I still have to really roil the beans at the end of the roast to get an even result.
Generally, with a single variac, one has to reduce heat towards the end. This reduces airflow, and scorches the beans, even if they were perfectly even entering into the first.
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 9:06pm Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
ljguitar Said:
Hi Jim... When I start my roasts, no matter which 'high' I choose on my Variac (115V-130+V), nor which beans or blends roasting, I end up burning several beans, which finish up looking like, feeling like and smelling like charcoal (later picked out of the roast by hand). I make sure the beans are 'rolling' when I start, but several always end up burning.
These briquettes I assume come from the bottom layer, and are just not moving up fast enough. I do not overdose the load - 2 heaping scoops.
Do you experience the same phenomena?
Yes, although not always. I occasionally get a batch that I don't have to pitch any beans from. Usually it's the second or third batch of a session.
I should also mention that I have been using smaller batches -- two underfilled scoops instead of two rounded ones.
I also have some other mods besides the variac. I often use Jim Schulman's soup can mod. I also carved a hole in the base and bolted in a piece of window screen in an attempt to get better airflow. I'm thinking I might attack the chaff collector next. :)
In the long run I want to design and build my own roaster by either cannibalizing an old hot air popper or maybe from scratch. The design hasn't jelled yet and I need to pick up some skills to do it.
ljguitar Senior Member Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 2,450 Location: Cheyenne Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulsar Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Solis Drip: Bunn Roaster: iRoast2
Posted Fri May 2, 2003, 9:25pm Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
jliedeka Said:
I should also mention that I have been using smaller batches -- two underfilled scoops instead of two rounded ones...I also carved a hole in the base and bolted in a piece of window screen in an attempt to get better airflow.
Series of 'boring' questions... If one were to bore a hole in the base of their FR+, would it be important where one bores it (in the side or bottom of the base)?
How large a hole would one attempt to bore?
Would the increased air flow prevent burnt beans?
Does either profile (drip or espresso roasting) benefit from more or less air flow?
Why not bore a series of holes and then use duct tape to cover part or all of them to regulate airflow?
Other question... What effect have you noticed from underfilled scoops?
Posted Sat May 3, 2003, 8:05am Subject: Re: Kenya AA Top flavors
As for where to put the hole, I opted for the bottom although I think the side might be better. It was easy to pick a spot on the bottom for the hole that didn't interfere with any structural support. I drilled 4 holes in the sides for bolts to hold the screen in place.
The increased air flow may help but I still get some burnt beans. I'm not sure it's possible to completely eliminate them with a FR.
Using smaller batches gives me more control and actually slows the roast down a bit because there is less mass to trap the heat. My first goal when roasting is to get the beans as even as possible going into the first crack. I have better consistency with smaller batches.
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