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Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Best Practices...  
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cjpeltz
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cjpeltz
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: Windsor, CO
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Posted Thu Mar 24, 2005, 7:56pm
Subject: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

I've been using the FR for about 6 months now, and decided to try out the SC/CO combo. My Stupentown CO just arrived in the mail today, and I'm planning to get my SC at Target this weekend.

I've spend some time scouring the various postings here and have found some great tips & tricks for SC/CO. However, some tips seem to contradict each other, so I wanted to throw out some specific questions and get your thoughts on what has worked well and not worked well.

  1. With a Stupentown, is it better to roast with or without a springform that raises the heating element? I've seen postings recommending both, and I would think adding this would increase roasing times. For those who've used both, what has produced a better, quality roasted bean?

  2. Should the Stir Crazy heating element be disconnected? Again, some seem to argue for and other against disconnecting the heating element. Can anyone comment on the difference between roasts? Also, this may sound like a very stupid question but, how do you disconnect the heating element? I couldn't find a posting on this,  but I'm guessing it's very easy.

  3. Is there any value in increasing/decreasing temps during the roast? I've seen some folks who have attempted to setup roasting profiles, others who have kept it a constant temp, others who have done pre-heating. What's worked the best in terms of starting and ramp-up temps?

  4. What is the best mod to make on the SC? I've seen some folks add just a couple of barrier strips, others who have done this and have also added some "spacers". If "spacers" are important, what the heck are they and where can I find them?

  5. Finally, I've seen lots of discussion around replacing the nut in the SC. Some have recommended a cap on top, and I've seen some recommendations for using foil under the cap, and also a recommendation to use some kind of an insulated foam? If I just replace the SC with a different nut, is that sufficient or should I really get the additional cap on top?

Some of these questions may have already been asked and answered, but it's sometimes hard to weed through responses when you do a search such as "SC/CO".

Thanks for all the help...it would be great if someone could post a summary of some of these tips on a website for future SC/CO newbies.

 
Jameva's Coffee (www.jamevas.com)
"Connecting the World Through Coffee"
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Woody
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Woody
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 566
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Posted Thu Mar 24, 2005, 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

#1- There's both schools of thought.  I'm from the non- springform school, class of '78

#2-  Most folks agree disconnected.

#3- My understanding of roasting is don't let the temp. stall too long or go down.   Buy  thermometer for your setup.

#4- I used some welding rod and crimped it to the existing rod with an aluminum cable crimp.  Works great.

#5- definitely replace the nut, then use a cap.  The original nut is too big for a reasonable size cap, and just replacing the nut with no cap will melt the shaft.
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nospam_coffee
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Location: SW GA
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Espresso: Isomac Tea
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Roaster: Stir Crazy/Turbo Oven combo
Posted Thu Mar 24, 2005, 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

I have a supenton and a stir crazy, so to answer your questions:

  1.  I've found a spacer works better than not with one.  I made one out of a 3" wide piece of cardboard, staples at the ends and wrapped in several layers of foil.

  2. I disconnected mine, I found to have a bit better control of temp, especially after 1st crack.  It's easy to disconnect, remove the plate on the bottom and tape off the wires.

  3. for 1/2# to 1# batches I have mine set to 390 the whole time and reach the start of 2nd crack at approx 12 and 16 min respectively.

  4. I wrapped a wad of foil around one of the arms (arm is still flat against the base), seems to stir better.

  5. I wrapped ~7 layers of foil over the nut.  The oven will scorch/melt.  Between the covering the nut and using a spacer, that seems to work.
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Rick
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Rick
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Posted Thu Mar 24, 2005, 11:31pm
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

I'm not using a Sunpentown, but an Infinity AX-747M.  The same principles apply.

  1. I've tried it both ways.  With springform spacer, the roast is more even when I roast more than 350 grams.

  2. Disconnected. I taped the disconnected wire ends with electrician's tape and then put wire nuts on them.

  3. I preheat for 5 minutes, then set the roaster to 450.  I reduce it a little at the end of 1st crack to draw out the time between first and second.

  4. I put 2 "barrier strips" on each stirring arm.  Bought at Radio Shack -- European-style barrier strips.  The part you need is inside a plastic body.  You must cut the plastic away to get at the pieces.

  5. Replaced the plastic nut with a wingnut, and put a foil-filled copper cap over it.  

I'm into my 8th month with this setup, and have roasted ~ 30 lb. without a single mishap or any signs of strain on either machine.  It's almost as easy to use as my old Hearthware Precision, but roasts 400 grams of green with ease, vs. the 85 gram full load for the HWP.

Rick
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whodat1
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Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 6:58am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

I have a Sunpentown with a Stir Crazy so I'll add my $.02 here:

  1.  I've tried both ways and like to use the springform. I seem to get a more uniform roast with it.

  2.  I left it on for the first roast but disconnected it after that. I seem to get more control over the roast without it.

  3.  My rig only has 9 roasts on it so far and I am still experimenting with different settings and 'profiles'. I've found that not preheating seems to get a slightly sweeter roast.

  4.  Barrier strips are about the only mod I've tried except for #5 below. I'm not entirely satisfied with them since I get a lot of reversals until the beans reach 1st crack. After first the beans get light enough that the reversals stop.

  5.  Copper has a major effect on my taste so I don't like the idea of a cap (unless it was made of stainless). I tried the new nut with a larger washer, but was still getting some melting on the shaft. I ended up replacing the entire drive shaft assembly with stainless steel using a 1/4 socket (fits on the motor shaft), bolt, washers & nuts. These items cost me $6.37, well worth it.

I feel that I'm still on the learning curve with this rig and it will take a few more roasts before I'm really comfortable with it.

Jim
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Zero
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Roaster: SC/CO
Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 7:11am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

1)  I've used it both ways.  The springform does raises the heating element up but it also traps more heat I believe, so it doesn't increase roasting times appreciably.  That's been my experience anywho.  I think the springform works nice for  roasting larger amounts of beans.  With smaller batches I don't use it.    I cut a small slot in my spring form so chaff could escape.  Small though, don't want too much heat to escape.  

2) I disconnected the SC heater.  My Supentown produces all the heat I need to roast. YMMV.  I was going to put a switch on it, but decided to wait.  I've roasted in the garage when it's been in the upper 40's out there and I've not  had any problems with roasting temps.  So I decided not to hassle with the switch.

3) I don't preheat.  I do use an inexpensive k-probe type electronic thermometer and try to follow a general profile.  I look at what the thermometer says not the Supentown temp dial.  According to my thermometer (and roasts) my CO's temps get much hotter than what the dial indicates.  I use the Supentown temp dial only to cycle the heater off and on to control temprature.  I keep a log of conditions and a time-temp record of every roast.  Then when a batch comes out exceptionally well I have something to go by the next time.

4) I brought the SC stirring arm to Ace Hardware and found some brass tubing and slid it over it.  Cut to length.  Works great for me.

5) I replaced the nut and used the cap like is recommended here on CG.  for insulation I used a piece I cut out of an old oven mitt.  2+ roasts a week for over a month and the shaft is fine.   One thing I learned the hard way to is remove the cap with a oven mitt before I dump my beans into my cooling rig.  Mine fell off once.  So I had a hot  &*%$ing piece of copper in with my beans and it was not easy to get out =8-0
.
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djs134
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djs134
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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Location: State College, PA
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Roaster: SC/CO w/ variac
Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

Chris, Welcome to the wonderful world of CO/SC roasting.

I too have a Supentown setup and to respond to your questions….

  1. I started with the oven setting directly on the Stir Crazy unit and found the roast uneven and quick.   IMHO the advantage to raising the CO unit is to allow for the air to circulate and even out.  It will also allow for more adjustment possibilities.

  2. I have disconnected the heating element on my SC.  Can’t say I ever roasted with the unit on so I can’t speak to its pros or cons.  I think I read in my manual that the heating element is rated to approach around 475o but I could be wrong.  Unless you are having a problem reaching temps with just the CO, I wouldn’t leave the heating element connected.  I found out recently that the beans can roast too quickly even with it disconnected.

  3. As far as the advantages of adjusting the temps, that will be up to you.  My first few roasts were done without adjusting the temp on the CO at all.  And they turned out pretty well.  But I have since then found (thanks to the denizens of this fine forum) that I can tweak my roasts by extending the time between C1 and C2 with temp adjustments.  Guess it will all depend on your level of comfort in playing with the roasting process.  But the main point is that you have the capability.

  4. As far as what mods are best, again, that would be up to you.  I use 4 of the “barrier strip”.  Two on each stirring arm, one on the end and then one in the middle.  The ones in the middle are offset so that they don’t follow the same path.  A note on using the barrier strips if you go that route.  Don’t try to cut the plastic off.  If you remove the screws completely from the “tubes”, the metal piece will slide right out from the plastic.  At least they did on the ones I got from Radio Shack.  The plastic is a tough nylon material and doesn’t cut easily.  Your appendages will though.

  5. I didn’t originally replace my plastic nut.  Unfortunately, I didn’t protect it well enough with the 1 1/2” copper cap and foil and it melted on me.  My fix was to drill into the composite post and screw in a shortened screw that comes with those planter hooks (fine threads on one end and wood screw threads on the other) so I could put a nut and washer on it to hold down the arms.  I then covered the new “post” with foil and a 1” copper cap.  To date this has worked fine.

Follow this link for a pretty comprehensive thread on the CO/SC mods and issues.  It will describe how to disconnect the heating element of the SC if you chose to and covers almost all of your questions.

Edit:  Jim, I'm interested in your socket replacement for your center post.  I gather that you mean a 1/4" socket extention.  The male end would fit into the motor, so then you screwed the bolt down into the female end of the shaft?

 
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
       William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 9:04am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

djs134 Said:

I gather that you mean a 1/4" socket extention.  The male end would fit into the motor, so then you screwed the bolt down into the female end of the shaft?

Posted March 25, 2005 link

Nope - he's talking about a short socket for 1/4" drive.  The drive side fits over the StirCrazy motor shaft (it ha a squared end).  Choose the socket size so it fits the head of the stainless hex head bolt you use to replace the plastic stirring shaft.  

The just get a couple of stainless nuts and washers to use to hold the stirring arms in place and you're good to go.  Here's how it assembles (motor on bottom and arms on top):

nut (maybe a wingnut)
flat washer
stir rod (sandwich between the washers)
flat washer
nut
nut (this one's a jam nut to keep vertical position)
hex head all-thread bolt (fits in the socket)
1/4" drive short Socket
motor shaft

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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djs134
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djs134
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 292
Location: State College, PA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Expobar Pulsar
Grinder: Macap M4, Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: eSantos, Santos, Bodum FP
Drip: Presto Scan, Melita Cone
Roaster: SC/CO w/ variac
Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 9:51am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

Is this the assembly?

djs134: SC drive assembly.JPG
(Click for larger image)

 
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
       William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,284
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005, 10:47am
Subject: Re: Best Practices for SC/CO?
 

djs134 Said:

Is this the assembly?

Posted March 25, 2005 link

You're close!!  As shown it will be WAY too long
and you will find that the motor shaft is male 1/4" square end.  

Replace the "socket shaft" with a SHORT socket (you know: a small, hollow, chromed cylinder with a 1/4" square hole on one side and a hex opening for your bolt head on the other side, it may be 1.25" Overall Length).

And the all-thread rod should be a stainless steel hex-head bolt, the hex head fits the socket and the shaft is maybe 1.5 inches long (and all threaded - no blank area on the shaft).

Finally, move the two lower nuts up right under the lower washer (these work like a jam nut assembly to adjust the stirring arm height).  

Does that clear it up?

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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