Posted Tue Sep 16, 2003, 11:00am Subject: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
I've been home roasting for about 3 years now, but since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, I don't get to roast as often as I'd like, so in some ways, I'm still learning.
I have trouble breaking down comments like "30 seconds into 2nd crack" or "15 seconds after 1st crack and NO MORE!" and applying them to the roasting process.
The question is really this: When should the beginning of first or second crack be measured? With first crack, is it really the very first crack/snap you hear? If so, it seems to me that "30 seconds after first crack" would not be sufficient enough for a (City) roast to fully bloom.
Second crack is even more ambiguous to me because it's more of a transition. So again, can we really call the beginning of second crack when we immediately (and not a second more) hear the first recognizable sounds of 2nd crack...that undeniable "sizzle" sound?
I've yet to employ these timing techniques. I usually waitd until I heard the rapid succession of cracks/pops telling me that the beans are into 1st crack when I wanted a City roast. Same with Full City roasts... I wait until 1st crack is not audible anymore, and all I hear are the constant sounds of 2nd crack. Of course, the darker the roast I desire, the longer I let go into 2nd crack.
Nevertheless, I'm curious as to some of your opinions regarding these kinds of comments. Are they realistic? Does something like "15 sec's into 2nd crack" require immediate water-cooling?
Your thoughts appreciated. Thanks.
"I am the great Cornholio!" -- an overcaffeinated Beavis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My favorite CG posts... Ristretto & blonding: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518 FP brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186 Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393 Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595 Inside the mind of a CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
ksmccul Senior Member Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 257 Location: iowa Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: pro-line Vac Pot: old school glass cory Drip: Mellita Clarity/Pour... Roaster: convection/stir crazy combo
Posted Tue Sep 16, 2003, 11:16am Subject: Re: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
my opinion would be ... it really depends on the type of roasting mechanism you are using, for example first crack on a popper/fresh roast/hwp/hwg, is at first little snap, because almost immediately every other bean cracks, but on my rig or i would also assume a drum roaster, the My first crack is when more than one bean cracks ..alot of times a bean will crack, but no others for a good 10-20 seconds, then maybe another... but at some point several go at once or the interval shortens betwen random cracks, that is when I consider it the"crack" point and then I time from there on the roast.
the 2nd crack I consider the same , my roaster takes 15-20 minutes for a pound an a half batch., where as a popper/fresh roast/hwp/hwg all do a cup in around 5-10....
so for the larger batch the whole batch seems to be at temperature when a few go, not just one or two but a small batch would be at temp when just one or two go...
ljguitar Senior Member Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 2,450 Location: Cheyenne Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulsar Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Solis Drip: Bunn Roaster: iRoast2
Posted Tue Sep 16, 2003, 11:51am Subject: Re: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
luvmycoffee Said:
--- I've been home roasting for about 3 years now, but since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, I don't get to roast as often as I'd like, so in some ways, I'm still learning. --- Second crack is even more ambiguous to me because it's more of a transition. --- Nevertheless, I'm curious as to some of your opinions regarding these kinds of comments. Are they realistic? Does something like "15 sec's into 2nd crack" require immediate water-cooling?
Hi Aureilo... Boy, there are things I cook that could be 'timed' and taste ok, but my nose, fingers and eyes tell me they are perhaps not done or need tweaking.
I roast coffee to a target temperature. Unless I know the bean well, the first batch or two help me determine the target temp. I watch, smell and listen and these combined senses tell me when the roast if approaching the level I want it to finish.
While I am getting there, after a few hundred more batches I think I will know the smell/listen part better.
Phrases like 10 sec into second crack are based on some person's experience with their machines. 10 sec into an unmodified FR+ would probably be really pushing into the rolling 2nd area, whereas 10 sec into second on my FR+ with a Variac is barely popping...this is why I started using a thermometer.
To answer your question, they only hold merit if your machine and other factors are identical to the person's who is sharing the advice.
To answer another of your questions...No, you will not need to water cool the beans. Just go to the point you want to quit and start the cooling cycle.
I know you are the only one in the house who drinks coffee, so if you want more practice roasting, offer beans to your friends free so you have more need to experiment...it works well.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Sep 16, 2003, 12:30pm Subject: Re: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
As Larry says, timing by cracks is roaster and bean specific.
Barring a thermometer, the first place to stop a roast for City is when the beans unwrinkle, and they start smelling sweet, of caramel. Earlier than that, and you'll get thin and sour.
Slightly darker, but generally still before the second crack, is when you see the slightest sheen on the beans; sort of a satin finish hinting of oil to come.
Darker roasts are based on taste and experience. I almost always stop when I smell the oil burn as the second crack gets rolling, since I dislike any charred flavor (except for an occasional Antigua). Others like to take it darker.
Benk Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Posts: 46 Location: Bellingham Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: NS OSCAR Grinder: Rocky Vac Pot: Utopia (eSantos) Drip: Press Pot & Chemex Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Tue Sep 16, 2003, 8:07pm Subject: Re: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
I just completed my first home roast with a TheaterII on my BBQ. I have a Nat. Gas Ducane. I removed the grate to set the bottom of the pan right on the lava rock. The Comark 550F thermometer was placed so it was half way between the center and the lip of the chamber. I hammered a nail in the thin alum. lid to creat a hole and then enlarged it until the thermometer fit snugly, not sliding. I set the tip of the thrermometer about an inch from the bottom. I waited till the thermometer read 350F before putting the green columbian beans inside. The thermometer went back to 275F as the beans were being slowly agitated by the mechanism. I filled an 8oz. cup with green beans for roasting incidently. I didnt time anything but knew a first crack was coming, it did. The temp read just over 300F. I both agitated by the handle mechanism and by shaking it like it had popcorn in it. The smoke was not voluminous nor effusive as I expected it might be, it did smell strange and unique to anything else, not unpleasant. Four mins. later the second crack came and I waited for all the beans to crackle before I peaked inside and determined I wanted it a little darker befor I removed it from the lava rock. I knew from experience in 20 years of food service cooking professionally that instinct is better than any other realm of information. I waited two minutes after the second crack and saw a nice even brown on the beans and poured them into a stainless steel bowl to shake off the chaff and let them cool while gently tossing them. This worked. While I have not ground or brewed this coffee yet, I know I got it right. What an interesting and unique experience, fun even.
Yes, exactly! That's why I posted the question! Thanks!!
"I am the great Cornholio!" -- an overcaffeinated Beavis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My favorite CG posts... Ristretto & blonding: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518 FP brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186 Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393 Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595 Inside the mind of a CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
Actually, I've started doing this with my last purchase. It does allow me to roast more frequently, and at the same time, start building my "clientele"! You know...just in case I'm laid off from this exciting desk job. ;-)
"I am the great Cornholio!" -- an overcaffeinated Beavis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My favorite CG posts... Ristretto & blonding: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518 FP brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186 Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393 Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595 Inside the mind of a CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
Heatgunroast Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 357 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Vivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer Mini; Zass Vac Pot: Royal Balance Brewer Drip: Various press and pour-overs Roaster: Heatgun, Dogbowl
Posted Thu Sep 18, 2003, 4:42pm Subject: Re: Help me understand "30 sec's into 2nd crack"
I'm not familiar with your roaster (or any roaster, for that matter), so I don't know how much control you have over responding to different crack cues. I also don't get to be very relevant in my posts since not many posters write in and say, "Hey, got a new Porter Cable, what do you think of the 27 cmf?" So I have to tag on near the end of others' questions. Feelin' sorry for me, yet? Maybe some of this is useful.
I roast according to "target" times that vary somewhat for beans and size of roast. If I wanted to do an 8 oz roast for an unfamiliar bean, I'd think in terms of 7 min to first crack, boost up the heat to complete most of the crack in 60 secs., then ease off for an 11-12 min onset to 2nd crack. I will use the early "pre-cracks" to adjust the heat I apply. For example, if I start getting a crack or two at 4.5 minutes, and the beans are still uneven, I know I'm going too fast for my liking and I can ease up. If I getting close to my 6.5 or 7min mark and still I'm not recognizing the imminent onset of first crack, I'll give it a boost. (I like to "ramp up" going into first). When roasting decaff blends, like SweetMarie's Donkey, I'll try to cut the time between first and second (against common advice, I think), but I will then draw out the second crack for as long as 1.5 minutes--never letting the beans get "rolling." For me, it produces a nice sweet unburnt roast characteristic of darker roasts with decent crema, but avoids the thin character of lots of decaff roasts I've done. So what was your question? Oh yah. Cracks can be a crude but useful signal to guide the roast or they can be an encyclopedia of sensory data that makes a thermometer quite unneccessary. IMO. Martin
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