Rebecca Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Grayling, Alaska Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX Roaster: HG/DB, P1, SC/TO
Posted Mon Jun 5, 2006, 11:57am Subject: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
I can easily hear each crack on my SC/TO, so why do I need a temp probe? Which is more reliable, 30 seconds into second crack, or 465 degrees? Are the two directly related? Does second crack occur at a specific temperature? BTW, I'm getting FC at 8 minutes and SC at 14 minutes and stopping at 15 minutes with a Vienna roast and its pretty bland stuff.
Posted Mon Jun 5, 2006, 12:06pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
typically first crack occurs at one temperature, and second crack at a higher temperature. I have heard that these vary with different varieties, but typically are within a ballpark of each other. I have been roasting by sound only. As far as how long you take a roast (before you dump/cool), it would depend on the variety. Different varieties exhibit different flavors when roasted to different degrees. You can do some research (sweetmarias.com is a good place) and find how others have roasted a particular variety and the flavors they have found at that roast level. Then experiment. I shoot for temperatures that bring first crack around 11 minutes and 2nd crack around 17 min. Ethiopian harrar horse can exhibit blueberry notes between first crack and second crack. Others like Sumatra Mandheling you might want to roast a little into second crack ...
The key is experimentation.
If you want to repeat flavors produced by a roast, note your temperatures used over time (temp probe helps), and try to repeat ...
Posted Mon Jun 5, 2006, 12:51pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
Now for me and my past two roasters, first crack comes in around 5 minutes at about 350. this was pretty normal for most beans I used. I do a 325 for about 4 minutes then to 350-375 for about 2 mintues to get thru the first crack, then start moving up from there to either a total 10 or 11 minutes roasting time.
Passenger Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 76 Location: Wisconsin Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Anita Grinder: Rocky Drip: Clarity Roaster: SCGC and Poppery II
Posted Mon Jun 5, 2006, 2:06pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
465 sounds close to where I get second crack, but it does vary by variety. If it's feeling bland for you, pull it out at beginning of second crack or even right before. You'll get less of the roast flavor and more of the varietal.
Posted Tue Jun 6, 2006, 9:30pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
Up to recently sound. None of the roasters(HG, Alps, Z&D, HotTops) up to the latest purchase (GeneCafe) allowed manual control of time & temp. With the Gene Cafe it's roasting to temp & sound. Hopefully charting the roasting profiles will allow me to find the optimum roasts (for my tastebuds), find new characteristics from a specific batch of greens and replicate the roasts. Little off subject, but does anyone know of a hygrometer that can read the moisture content of green beans?
Noel Mano dell 'operatore> Macinadosatore> Miscela> Macchina espresso
Posted Tue Jun 6, 2006, 11:02pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
I roast with a heat gun. I've tried to measure temps with a thermocouple but gave it up as futile. Nevertheless, I have found that I can still get pretty close to my desired roast level. I use a combination of sound, sight and smell to figure out where I am at. If I want a full city roast (aka just short of 2nd crack) I need to be alert for color and smell. City roasts are trickier because you need to have a sense of when all the beans have passed through 1st crack.
It helps to have experience with the origin you are roasting. They can vary a bit from year to year and even from bag to bag but generally behave the same way. The real trick to roasting is knowing when to stop. With most roasting methods, the beans roast a bit more from when you stop the roast so you need to think ahead. There is really no substitute for experience although you may get lucky by anticipating.
If you are going into second crack or farther, you can go by sound. If you want to be a bit lighter, you need to understand the origin you are roasting. Visual and olfactory cues are the only way to go.
OTOH, I would guess that the SC/CO method would lend itself better to temperature measurement. In my experience, however, you'll never be absolutely sure what temp the bean is at. I used to use a FR+/variac and the thermometer/thermocouple never really told me what temp the beans were. I tended to use the thermometer more as a guide to where I was in the roast process than any reflection of what the actual bean temps were.
In short, you are better off getting to know an origin and recognizing the appearance and smells of your desired roast level.
Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006, 6:32am Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
Roast by color, sound, and smell. If you can actually measure the temperature of the bean mass, 1st crack will happen between 373F and 380F depending upon bean type (hard or soft). Second crack is also dependent upon the type of beans, and can be up to 405-415F bean mass temperature.
Trying to correlate air temperature to bean mass temperature is difficult as different weights of beans (amount) and differing bean densities will not heat the same. This means your air temperature can be one measurement and the beans another. The only way to really know what temperature is correct is to measure the bean mass.
Color is the best indicator of roast level which is why professional roasters use Agtron numbers (colors) and not descriptions like City, Full City, etc.
Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006, 10:07pm Subject: Re: Roasting to temp or roasting to sound
I use both methods. The reason is one time I had some Yemen and I couldn't hear anything. Maybe cuz the beans were small but it was getting darker without me hearing it crack. Here's something on it.
I drink espresso so I can work longer, so I can make more money, so I can drink more espresso, so I can work longer, so I can make more money, so I can drink more espresso...
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