COBoy Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europicolla Grinder: Kitchenaid A9 burr Vac Pot: none Drip: French press Roaster: Heat gun - Milwaukee 1220
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 2:12pm Subject: Economies of home roasting
I haven't started roasting but will probably try soon using a free popcorn popper I can get. I understand there are many reasons to roast including fun, control, freshness, etc. But for the purposes of this post I'm mainly interested in only $$ issues.
So, my question is, in the long run, do you save money roasting? What are the cheap sources for green beans? How many people find local sources for their green bean desires? I also realize that you lose 15% moisture in the roasting process so a $5/pound bean is really more like $5.90/pound. And, during roasting, do you ever ruin batches, thus making your costs higher? Do you find that the popcorn popper doesn't cut it and you have to buy an expensive roaster?
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 2:58pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
Unless you regard your time as free, there are no economies to home roasting, since you'll spend an hour to two roasting up a few pounds of coffee.
There are slightly cheaper bean sources than Sweetmaria's that sell the highest grades of coffee, and some that may have lower shipping costs to where you live (although if you order 10- 20 lbs or so a shot, this is minor league). You can use the search function for the relevent threads.
It's really pointless buying low end greens at $2 or so per pound, although these are available too. The major benefit of home roasting is using high end beans that cost $12 to $15 roasted, rather than those Trader Joe serves up at $5 per pound roasted.
Roasting cheap beans as a hobby is about as silly as a hobby cook flipping burgers, or a hobby baker making wonderbread.
mgrignan Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2002 Posts: 77 Location: WY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 3:36pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
Shipping usually ends up being approximately $1-1.5/lb when I order from Sweet Marias (I usually order 5-10lbs at a time) and I'm all the way across the country from them. I'm not sure where you got the $15 figure from - are you abroad? It takes me about 15 minutes to roast a 135g batch, which lasts me a week. No, my time isn't "free", but I would probably be in the kitchen for those 15 minutes of the weekend anyway, so I still consider roasting to be an economy. I pay about $7/lb, including shipping and adjusting for roasting loss, for my favorite coffees, whereas I usually paid $11-14/lb for beans from my local coffeehouse or Peet's. I didn't get into roasting to save money - I did it for fun and to have fresher beans, but, at $5/lb savings, I've already more than paid for my half of the Caffe Rosto a friend and I bought a year and half ago.
Don't think of it as an economy, think of it as a hobby that at least *helps* pay for itself...
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 3:59pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
If economy is all you care about, you can probably find local sources for green beans (ask around at local roasters for instance) and you can often find VERY inexpensive green from places like Costco, etc.. Of course, that's if economy is all you care about. I have tried some local sources, but all too often the cheaper green shows up in the cup, no matter what I do.
My favorite roasters charge anywhere from $12-25 and more per pound for some of my favorite blends and they use premium beans. I am probably saving some by purchasing my premium green (from sweet marias, vivace, and other internet sources), but there is still the expense of the roaster (I went from popper, to HWP, to HotTop), your time (weekly since you want it to be fresh), and so on.
As has already been spoken, the real reason people roast their own coffee isn't economy (even if you eak some out), it's for the same reason I do things like make cheese, bake bread, don't have any frozen dinners in my freezer (except those I made myself). Life is simply more enjoyable that way.
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 5:04pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
It sounds like you've been researching this. So I'm guessing when you say your main concern is $$$$, that it's really getting the best coffee for as little money as possible. (Otherwise, you'd be drinking Folger's!) So I'd say, if you're very disciplined, you can save money. And as Jim said, your time is money. As far as the shipping charges go, the first pound is the hardest hit. IOW, don't buy 1 pound at a time. If you buy in bulk (IE, 15+ pounds of green at a time), it normally works out to be about $1/pound for the shipping. So if you stick with the lesser priced beans (IE, sumatra), you can get your green for about $4-$5/pound delivered to your front door. Factoring in the "1 pound of green is not equal to 1 pound of roasted" thing, you can still have (IMO) $6/pound coffee that is much better than anything you'd find in the grocery . (Unless you're one of the lucky guys who has a roaster in your grocery.)
A website for the cost conscious but discriminating home roaster is coffeewholesalers.com. Again, it's on the west coast, so shipping charges may be more for you if you're on the east coast. Also, once you determine the beans you normally enjoy, most of the sites recommended here, give you a price break. IE, 1 pound might be $4.25 but 5 pounds might be $4.10 and 10 pounds might be $4.00.
I live in AZ and the three places I normally order from are coffeebeancorral.com and sweetmarias.com and coffeewholesalers.com - if you live on the east coast, you should look at coffeemaria.com (he also sells on Ebay as user id chaola). Hans is a very nice guy & I would not hesitate to buy from him again.
Typically, the economy issue goes out the window when one get's totally obessive about the nuances & invests in other equipment. (I most assuredly qualify for this!)
COBoy Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europicolla Grinder: Kitchenaid A9 burr Vac Pot: none Drip: French press Roaster: Heat gun - Milwaukee 1220
Posted Wed Dec 10, 2003, 7:19pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
Thanks for the feedback. I've located a local source for green coffee beans from a local roaster. Cost is about $5.50 per pound. I'm like the rest of you. I'll probably mostly try this for the joy of it. I also bake bread and brew beer so I understand where you come from.
DMHinCO Senior Member Joined: 9 Sep 2003 Posts: 17 Location: Denver, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Dec 11, 2003, 12:14am Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
COBoy, If you are here in Denver, stop by Kaladi Brothers on Evans near DU. Their greens aren't cheap, but most are pretty good. They roast in a Sivitz (sp?) roaster and are meticulous, so when you walk out with your greens, ask for a cup of brewed free.
Tip Sheet for the Zach & Dani's Roaster at quovadimusllc.com/zad.html
ddepaula Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Posts: 21 Location: BR, LA Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Cory Roaster: Convection Oven,Stir-Crazy
Posted Thu Dec 11, 2003, 3:22pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
I live in Louisiana and have ordered from CoffeeBeanCorral and Sweet Maria’s. Both have been very good. CoffeeBeanCorral started shipping from Mississippi (which has helped cut down the shipping costs for me) and continues to ship from Arizona. I think the $15 amount that you saw at Sweet Maria’s is for the minimum order, not the shipping costs. I have also gotten green beans from CMEbrew, which ships from Ohio. Good luck and enjoy.
COBoy Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europicolla Grinder: Kitchenaid A9 burr Vac Pot: none Drip: French press Roaster: Heat gun - Milwaukee 1220
Posted Fri Dec 12, 2003, 11:12am Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
ddepaula, you are correct about Sweetmarias minimum order. I had read that wrong and I edited my first post so I don't confuse anyone about their shipping costs.
I found a local roaster so I'm buying green beans from him. Will be interesting to compare his roasts to mine using the same beans. I'm sure I'll try sweetmaria's some day because they have such a great variety of beans. Now I just need to get a popcorn popper that doesn't crap out on me on the first roast.
js Senior Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 37 Location: Ithaca, NY Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Zassenhaus Knee Mill Drip: KitchenAid 4 cup Ultra Roaster: Proctor Silex hot air popper
Posted Sun Dec 14, 2003, 5:47pm Subject: Re: Economies of home roasting
I have to weigh in on this one, despite the fact that I'm not a long time home roaster and don't have a lot of experience.
I completely agree that if you're trying to save money, then don't home roast. Not because you WON'T actually save money--I'm pretty sure I do--but because it is not the right reason to start homeroasting. Also, why buy cheap green beans? Why? When you can buy world class green coffee beans from sweetmarias? Why save a couple bucks per pound? It just seems crazy. If money is that important, drink Folgers, right?
I don't mean to be insulting, and I too, take what you're asking to be a sort $$$ per quality question, i.e. a value question.
In any case, I think home roasting definitely pays for itself for one very important reason: green beans last for years. Didn't get around to using a full pound in one week? No problem! Can't say that with pre-roasted coffee, can you? And then, of course, there's the fun of having many different varieties on hand.
For me to be able to drink the highest quality coffee, I simply must home roast, but even if I COULD get the highest quality coffee locally, it would certainly cost more. As for my time--which I haven't considered--I figure I should pay myself for it in the theoretical accounting book. It's FUN! I usually pay for fun, but here, it pays me.
These sorts of questions can never really be answered in general. They will always be asked and will never be resolved. They are akin to "Will I save money by having my own garden?" Well, who the heck knows?! it all depends. After trying it out for a decade you may come up with an answer valid only for yourself, --but have your own garden no matter what the answer is, besides it's the only way to find out.
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