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Coffee: Home Roasting Talk
Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

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Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Experiments and...

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JoeZone
Senior Member

Joined: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: Freeport Maine
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: La Spaziale S1
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, GSI...
Roaster: U.S Roasters

Posted Sun Jul 8, 2007, 6:39am Subject: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Hi All, I just finished cleaning up the detritus of our morning coffee routine (two Bodum Pavinas, four shot glasses, the full drip tray from Silvia, the overspray from the doserless Rocky, one dirty kitchen towel, a milk pitcher, the thermometer, shining the outside of Silvia, splattered milk, the timer, little rings of coffee from the shot glasses, splattered coffee and the little cup I use for various priming and cleaning tasks), and I thought I would share some experiences with the new programmable Hottop. I am a bit surprised at the small number of postings here (are there really only six of us who have it?), and I’d like to try to draw out some more discussion on what I think is an excellent roaster. I traded up from the analog Hottop, and before that, I had an iRoast 2. I loved the coffee from the iRoast, but I moved on because of the small batch size and the airplane engine-like noise. I then went through about 100 roasts on the analog machine, but I felt like the coffee was kind of one dimensional, and I hoped to get a more refined coffee with the new one. I’ve now done about 20 roasts on the programmable. I am extremely happy with the coffee thus far. We typically roast 8-ounce batches, as we do a lot of experimenting with different coffees bought in 1-2 pound lots. I have also done a few at as much as 300 grams with beans we have in greater supply. I have used two profiles – the default manual profile and the one provided in the user guide as an example of how to use the controls during the roast to affect the length of the second crack. I also tried one roast using the Automatic mode, but that seemed to be very similar to the profile from the analog machine (meaning a much longer roast), and I didn’t like it. With an eight-ounce batch, the default (“0) profile results in about a 15-minute roast, with the first crack coming at 12-13 minutes and the second (when I let it happen) at close to 15 – 15:30. That profile is shown below # Time Temp Fan 1 3:00 239 0 2 1:00 275 1 3 3:00 329 0 4 1:00 347 0 5 1:20 365 0 6 2:30 392 1 7 2:30 410 2 8 3:00 424 3 The total time for this one if you run it to the end is 17:20. I think this is more than enough time to accommodate a 9-10 ounce batch size or to go into a much darker roast. I prefer FC+/light Vienna, so I haven’t experimented with anything beyond that. This profile has yielded consistently excellent coffees – including Brazil, Panama, Tanzania Peaberry and two espresso blends, one decaf and one regular. But, being a coffee geek, I felt compelled to experiment with the programmability. Yesterday, I took the default profile and copied it to a new location, and then varied the last two stages as shown below: # Time Temp Fan 1 3:00 239 0 2 1:00 275 1 3 3:00 329 0 4 1:00 347 0 5 1:20 365 0 6 2:30 392 1 7 3:00 385 4 8 3:00 424 2 Using this profile, I roasted eight ounces of the Sweet Maria’s excellent Brazil Minas Gerais. I felt like the second crack was coming a little quickly, and I wanted to see if I could draw it out by holding the roast at a set temperature when the second crack started – thus I moved the 7th segment to just below the sixth (with a lot of fan speed) and then let the final segment go very high to force the heating element on (with less fan speed). In the 7th segment, the temperature reading climbed to 397-400 and stayed there for pretty much the full segment – so this part of the experiment worked. BUT, I was then surprised to see no change for over two minutes (staying steady at 397) after the heating element came on – and also no second crack (the first had come at 12:00) until five minutes after the start of the first. The effect of turning on the heating element was very delayed. I’ve just had a press pot of this coffee (after just one day – I would usually rest it for another day). The aroma of the ground coffee wasn’t as vivid as the same coffee roasted using the default profile, and the coffee tastes awful – like it has been too long on the farm. I will chuck this batch. It seems to me that its necessary to get a running start when trying to affect the behavior of the coffee in the manipulation of the heating element. Next time, I will try to cut the 7th profile down to one minute and then see what happens (adding time manually at the end if I need to). I also wanted to report on some other experiences/observations with the new roaster. In the chaff collector (which is deeper on this model), I have been finding small beans – typically from the espresso blends, but also a few from the Peaberry. This didn’t happen with the old one. Also in the collector, I have seen a few times ash from burned chaff. I now clean the roaster after each roast by taking off the viewing window and vacuuming with a wand, so I know this isn’t residual from a previous roast. And finally, I had what I believe was a fire in the roaster the other day. I was roasting some espresso blend on a sunny afternoon, and there was sun streaming in the window – there was a lot of smoke for this roaster, and the room filled with a haze. I use a bathroom fan mounted above the roaster for ventilation, and this didn’t quite handle it. I could not see anything going on in the roaster, so I let it run to completion (and the coffee is quite good). So, at the time, I attributed the smoke I was seeing to the bright sun. But, I started to smell that “its time to change the filter smell: a few days later, and when I look at the rear filter, it was very dirty, though it only had 12 roasts on it. I would expect to get 20-25 before changing it under ordinary conditions. Any thoughts?

5thumbs
Senior Member

Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Saratoga
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun Jul 8, 2007, 7:39pm Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

I am about to upgrade to programable. I would love to see a library of roast profiles to experimnt with.

uroborus
Senior Member

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Earth
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Mon Jul 9, 2007, 3:49am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Hey, Thanks for posting this topic. I have been contemplating the new hottop for months now (and waiting to hear what Tom over at SM has to say and to offer it), but have been waiting on hearing some stuff first before I seriously started to make excuses why I really couldn't NOT afford to get it anymore. I used to have an alp, which died (thankfully in retrospect) and have been using my iroast 2, but I miss a drum roasted coffee. SO, any excuses you can give to help me in this endeavor, feel free!!! thanks! Greg

Dieter01
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/PID
Grinder: Rocky
Drip: Techniworm
Roaster: Hottop P

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 1:05am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Just got my P today as well. Would be very interested in seeing and discussing some more profiles!

Coffeerick
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Harrisburg
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ViValdi II
Grinder: Rocky
Roaster: HotTop

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 5:15am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Good questions! I've had mine for about 4 months now and am beginning to understand some of the possibilities and also the limitations. I was never able to draw out the time between first and second crack using the programming. It really needs a much finer control to be able to do that from what I've seen. What works for me is opening up the filler chute cover right when you get into FC to slow it down without stopping it. You can control it from just a crack to wide open very easily and I usually end up about halfway open. Of course you'll get a fair amount of smoke, but I have a pretty good exhaust set up so that isn't a factor for me. The other thing I've found is that for brighter coffees, I'll roast a smaller batch to get through the roast faster and avoid muting the brightness. I make my adjustments to the program based on the batch size, not the degree of roast since I always manually eject after nursing it through FC with the chute adjustment. Another thing I've found is that the temperature controls are pretty much useless. At least on mine. I was getting as much as 20 degrees F variation in FC on the same beans depending on whether it was the first or later runs. I was also needing to do the 414F override all the time in order to get into second crack in later runs. I put a small fan in front of the roaster, cooling the control panel and the temperature readings dropped by 20+ degrees! Bottom line is that the temperature readings are highly dependent on the temperature of the control panel and can change dramatically with both room temperature and the airflow around the panel. If no one else has this problem, I would like to know about it so I can get mine fixed! The back filter gets ugly quick but does not seem to have much effect. I thought that might be the reason that my temperatures were getting higher, but replacing it had zero effect. Turned out that it was just that summer was making my basement hotter and the problem noted above. Other observations - I had to do some minor mods to the drum to keep from getting stuck beans after almost every run. I don't know if it matters, but I didn't like having a burnt chunk of coal in with every roast. I also use a heat gun on the "cold" setting blowing into the filler chute between runs to reduce the time it takes to cool back down to the starting temperature. It really speeds things up (but may make the control panel temp issue worse since the inside is cooling faster than the outside). I have a small fan that I blow over the cooling tray to speed up the bean cooling - it also blows out almost all the left over chaff while the beans are being stirred. I have a shop vac with a crevice tool that I use to clean out the chaff tray opening every time. About every 3-4 runs, I pull the front cover off, clean the window and get the chaff out of the corners. No sign of fire, but if you don't clean regularly I can see where it could happen. This is the first roaster I've owned, so I can't really compare. But I am disappointed with the lack of control at this price point. The fact that the heater is either full on or off means that you can't control the ramp rates to any significant degree (the fan settings should help, but they don't do enough to make much difference). And the temp readings simply can't be trusted as a way of controlling the roast. The combination of batch size and ventilation provides enough additional control that I think I am getting great roasts, but it is in spite of the machine rather than because of it. I have ordered some of SM's roasted coffee and done taste comparisons with my own roasts (same beans) and can't tell any significant difference. This tells me that I am either doing well with the roasting or my tasting sophistication sucks! Either way, I'm happy. I'm interested to hear other's experiences as well. Thanks, Rick

Dieter01
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/PID
Grinder: Rocky
Drip: Techniworm
Roaster: Hottop P

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 6:58am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Great tip Rick, will try that once I get somewhat comfortable with this thing! I had a Heartwhave Precision prior to the P, roasted about 20 lbs with it before it caved in (bought it used). I never could tell the cracks apart so I got used to roasting on colour and taste (with the small bach size I would adjust subsequent roasts if I was off on the first one). With the Hottop the cracks are a lot more audible! Roasted 3 batches just now. The first was a small leftover batch (137 grams) of some Panama I had. I was too excited to make any notes at this point, I just hooked up the machine and stared through the glass! First crack came very early and continued into second without me being able to tell that it did... I could see very little through the glass (small batch so the beans didn't touch it much, plus the heating element wasn't glowing). When the cracks got way too frequent I ejected. The result was some seriously dark, oily beans. The process only took about 10 minutes! Attached a picture from early on in the first roast :-) (Click for larger image)

chrzacho
Senior Member

Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Denmark
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto Premium
Grinder: Ascaso Innova I2
Roaster: HotTop KN-8828P

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 7:11am
Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Coffeerick Said:

Other observations - I had to do some minor mods to the drum to keep from getting stuck beans after almost every run. I don't know if it matters, but I didn't like having a burnt chunk of coal in with every roast.

Posted August 18, 2007 link

I have the same problem .. what have you done to the drum?

Dieter01
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/PID
Grinder: Rocky
Drip: Techniworm
Roaster: Hottop P

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 7:11am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Second batch was about 200 grams of Sumatra (this time I was taking notes). Ohh, and I am still using the STD program. The following temperatures where noted at the end of each section: 217F - 248F - 338F - 352F - 365F - 385F First crack at 387F (with 05:15 left on the counter). Ejected the beans at 412F, 03:30 left on the counter. Third attempt was 250 grams of Monkey blend. 207F - 237F - 327F - 349F - 367F - 392F - 410F First crack at 399F (with 04:23 left on the counter). The beans were automatically ejected at 415F, 02:00 left on the counter. First few experiences / thoughts... - Batch size makes a huge difference on the time required for a roast. The first was done in a fraction of the time, despite the machine starting cold. - The machine ejects the beans automatically on the STD program, even with 2 minutes left. I probably need to add time manually then - The difference in temperature for FC seems a bit odd, even though these are the same beans. Comments? Added a picture of the three roasts, first on the left and last on the right. (Click for larger image)

Dieter01
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/PID
Grinder: Rocky
Drip: Techniworm
Roaster: Hottop P

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 7:12am Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

Same picture from a different angle... (Click for larger image)

JoeZone
Senior Member

Joined: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: Freeport Maine
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: La Spaziale S1
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, GSI...
Roaster: U.S Roasters

Posted Sat Aug 18, 2007, 12:17pm Subject: Re: Experiments and Experiences with the Programmable Hottop

In that ejection you were talking about on the STD program, make sure you are at the machine when it gets to 414F. The roaster has a safety feature that requires you to hit Enter when you get to that point (the machine will beep) and if you don't the beans will eject - before the end of the cycle. It seems that a lot of people (including me) didn't catch this in reading the manual. I like the idea of opening the chute to control temperature. I am now 35 roasts into mine, and I can't seem to affect the temperature curve much with the controls.

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