Posted Sat Jul 21, 2007, 2:56pm Subject: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
I have been home roasting now for 5 years. I have owned a Fresh Roast 8 and a i-roast. I-roast was starting to go on me after two years of hard work. I figured ... well if I get another roaster let's go for the big boy - HotTop.
I just recieved my new HotTop Programable Roaster on Friday. My God, what a beautiful unit!
I have done several different kinds of beans in the unit all done on the "Auto" setting.
The first roast went fine ... took about 18 minutes or so ... that took me into second crack using a Guatmalin.
Roasting Brazilian Santos:
HotTop signaled me to dump beans at 167f First Crack at: 16.57 Temp = 395 Second Crack at: 17.50 didn't get the temp on that one. However, HotTop dumped beans about ten seconds later. This unit has an automatic "Dump Beans" feature that will dump beans if the internal drum temp goes over 414 whcih is what happened in the two last roasts.
Monson Malabar: HotTop singles me to dump beans at: 167f First Crack at: 16.60 Temp = 396f
As you can see, it's not making it into second crack. If it is, there does not seem to be any leg between first and second crack whcih makes it really hard to figure out what's going on.
It's strange.... the first roast of Guatalen went fine, the unit did NOT dump the beans. After the first roast I allowed the unit to cool for about 4 hours. After the second roast I cooled for about 1 and 1/2 hours. This should have allowed the roaster to cool down in plenty of time so I don't think that was the problem. Do you have any advice or thoughts that might help?
On the trouble shooting page at the HotTop Website they recommend I reduce the batch size from 250g down to 225g’s. I tried that as well which yielded the following results using Brazillian Santos:
Dump beans in at: 170f First crack occurred at: Time = 5.25 Temp: = 394 … then machine dumps beans automatically at time: 405!
I should mention that all of these roasts were set on the “Auto” mode. The times I indicated was taken off the HotTop screen.... time left in the roast. I used the max time setting of 21min.
I am really disappointed with what’s been happening with this roaster. I know there are a lot of you HotTop owners out there who might be able to give me a hand. It’s as though once this roaster hits first crack it doesn’t stop … there is no pause in between first and second what so ever!
The only thing I can think of is perhaps I have the filter in backwards? I have the filter black side facing the front of the roaster, that’s correct right?
I tell you, it’s a shame to spend 1200 Canadian on something that from my experience appears to be getting way too hot! After all, the machine is dumping the beans because the unit is exceeding 414f! It’s the safety feature that's dumping the beans .... which tells me that the unit is heating up too fast. Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?
Thanks to anyone who generously responds to my frustrated ramblings,
Lifestar Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Howell, MI Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Grimac Mia Grinder: Rocky, KAP Drip: FP, TV, Aerobie, Sock Roaster: HotTop P, I-Roast2
Posted Sat Jul 21, 2007, 4:28pm Subject: Re: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
Honestly I have never tried the Auto setting on the hotop. I would recommend trying the manual with the predefined program 0. Your first crack temps are right on par with what I get. Once the heat is rising it has a carry over even if you back off the temp. As soon as first crack starts for me I tune back the heat until I am over a minute into first crack before I even think about letting the heat come back on. Its a slow ramp back up so it ends up giving me a couple minutes between cracks. I have the fan turned up on the second to last phase and if I feel that my heat is still rising to fast I will pull my side filter up to let more hot air out rapidly (this does release a ton of smoke.) If I run everything OK I can ease my way into around 408 which is where I will normally start to hear second crack start on most beans. I almost always eject at the first snaps of second for a nice full city roast.
From my understanding the heater is either off or on. When I get into first crack I back off on the set temperature so that the heater is off. The unit will still continue to heat significantly so that's why I will pull op on the filter if I feel I am still rising to quickly.
When I first started using the unit I had thought the carryover increase was due to the exothermic reaction in first crack. I did a little test and dialed way back on the temp in 3rd phase and still see the temp continue to rise. That's when I realized it is carryover. Pulling the filter for a few moments when the fan is going seems to me to be the equivalent of opening the cover of your grill when cooking.
As far as the filter in correctly yes I think yes I think the black faces the front... It will only really go in one way. The filter cuts a lot of smoke but also really locks the heat in the roaster. As an experiment try this. When you finish a roast immediately start another roast. Where you are normally seeing the warm up you will have a cool down cycle with the fan running on high. Put your hand in the air path to see the volume and temp of the air. Then Pull the filter out and test again. You will find much higher flow and much warmer air without the filter. If you watch the temp on the front of the roaster you will also see that the roaster cools down much quicker with the filter out as well.
5thumbs Senior Member Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 23 Location: Saratoga Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Jul 22, 2007, 8:34am Subject: Re: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
This is an easy fix.
In the Auto mode stretch the roast time out to 21 minutes
You can extend the seconds to 59 seconds for a total of 21 minutes and 51 seconds.
This should take you to at least the beginning of 2nd crack (FC) and perhaps FC+ with most beans. If it does not you can fix it on the fly (see page 21 section 13 of your manual). For the last 40 seconds of the roast the unit will beep. During this time you have the opportunity to add as much time as you want to the roast by pushing the "plus time" button.
I usually push the plus time button just to shut off the damn beep. I manually eject when I reach the desired roast level (by sound and smell).
Posted Sun Jul 22, 2007, 9:46am Subject: Re: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
I think perhaps "5thumbs" has misunderstood my problem.
My problem is the unit is ejecting the beans because the machine is getting too hot. It is reaching temperatures above and beyond the 414f.
I am NOT having a problem achieving second crack. The problem I am having is that there is NO pause between cracks and therefore, I can’t distinguish when first ends and second crack begins. I will try the suggestion that “Lifestar” has suggested … setting the roaster on “Program #0” and controlling the heating element.
Is there anyone else who has experienced the HotTop overheating in the “Auto Mode?” Should I be concerned and perhaps speak with “HotTop U.S.A?” about the problem? Basically, I am trying to discdrn weather my HotTop is defective or not or, is this a common problem that other uses have noted. "Is it normal for the HotTop to eject beans in the "Auto" setting or is it just a case of the operator, "me," not being famillor with dynamics of drum roasting?
5thumbs Senior Member Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 23 Location: Saratoga Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Jul 22, 2007, 12:59pm Subject: Re: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
Sorry Rob, I did misunderstand. Email Michael at Hottop and he will probably respond with a lucid answer/solution within a day or two. The email is on the hottop webpage. I want to know the answer because I'm waiting to upgrade to the new B model or the P model you have.
Posted Sun Jul 22, 2007, 2:54pm Subject: Re: HotTop Owners Pleas Help
Here is an e-mail I sent to the folks at HotTop jsut now. I will keep you poasted on the answer.
Also, here is a copy of my latest roast temps and times:
Type of roaster – KN 8828P Batch size = 250g Roast Program = “AUTO” Total Time of Roast Input By User = 21 min Type of Coffee Roasted: El Salvador Organic FT This was my 5th roast in this unit
Roast Results: Time: Temp in F 21:00 = 20:30 = 181 20:00 = 194 19:30 = 205 19:00 = 219 18:30 = 232 18:00 = 244 17:30 = 255 17:00 = 266 16:30 = 275 16:00 = 284 15:30 = 293 15:00 = 300 14:30 = 307 14:00 = 313 13:30 = 318 13:00 = 324 12:30 = 327 12:00 = 331 11:30 = 336 11:00 = 340 10:30 = 343 10:00 = 349 9:30 = 354 9:00 = 361 8:30 = 369 ……. First Crack Occurred very slowly 8:00 = 376 7:30 = 383 7:00 = 390 ……. First Crack Over 6:30 = 397 ……. Second Crack Begins 6:00 = 401 ……. User Ejects Beans – Roast over! TOTAL TIME FROM THE MOMENT THE ROASTER WAS ENGAGED TO THE MOMENT IT STOPPED: 24:09 on the stop watch.
This is so very strange. The roaster appeared to work great this time around. Of course, just when I am trying to demonstrate the roaster’s possible defective faults it works flawlessly … at least it appeared to. Please see the attachment for the results of this latest roast.
I can’t explain why the roaster worked fine this time around. I did everything I had before. In the pervious four roasts I used:
Guatemalan
Brazilian Santos
Monsoon Malabar
This time around I roasted El Salvador. I am thinking that perhaps the beans I used in the previous four roasts were perhaps softer beans from lower elevations. Correct me if I’m wrong, but El Salvador is in a higher elevation then the coffees above. If my hypothesis is correct, this might explain why this roast was successful. Perhaps the El Salvador can take the heat better then the other coffees. If this is true, I will have to really roll back the heat when roasting these softer beans.
The other hypothesis is that perhaps there are differences in my line voltage depending on the time of day I roast. I was told that this roaster is sensitive to line voltage.
I would however, ask that you have a look at the times and temperature recordings I mad in the enclosed attachment. I just want to be sure that it’s the user at fault and not the roaster.
One other concern of mine. When roasting I have noticed a grinding or rubbing sound every at every second or so. I’m not sure if the drum is out of alignment or something may have gotten damaged during shipping. It’s not a loud sound but this does give me reason for concern if it keeps happening.
I always have to press the enter button to continue over 212 Cel., I see this as a safty feature
ECM Said:
I am NOT having a problem achieving second crack. The problem I am having is that there is NO pause between cracks and therefore, I can’t distinguish when first ends and second crack begins. I will try the suggestion that “Lifestar” has suggested … setting the roaster on “Program #0” and controlling the heating element.
I have the digital unit, I always set my time to 21 minutes. I listen to first crack and depending on the bean, and most are different, I may get it around with 5 minutes left in the roast. The second crack may vary from 4 minutes remaining to adding another 60 seconds to the roast . I have some from Maui witch I need to add 60 seconds to the end just to clear the second crack, other beans may start second crack with 1 minute remaining on a 21 minute roast. Not knowning where the second crack starts you can not judge if it happned or not. Sometimes I feel I missed the second crack when I didnt, just didnt take it long enough. At 404 degrees the fan come on or changes speed. My temps have gotten past 414 if I remember correrctly. I would take it out of auto and do it manually and listen to the first and second crack, then you can manualy hit the dump button when you here the second crack begin to roll off, when you do that, the beans will still continue to crack when they dump and begin cooling.
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