At the time I tried a few faster roasts (never could do 6 minutes, closer to 8), but I am still a bit puzzled about this as Davids has so much experience with different home roasting methods, and it flies in the face of most current trends in home roasting. I wanted to try more to figure out the what and how of these really quick air roasts. (my results at the time were not so great and my minimum roast time then became 8 minutes, and later now to 10 minutes)
He does not go into specific times ( in fact he never mentions any specific time, only Mark made mention of the 6 minute roast) Ken seems in agreement, but it is never explicitly stated what he felt was too long (....or too short) for the 'ideal' fluid bed roast time. Is 6 minutes really a good roast time for these air roasters?
.... Anyway, my roast routine is a bit too easy lately so I thought maybe it is a good time to do some scary dangerous experiments.
If anyone is routinely roasting in the 6-8 minute range and enjoying the results, I would like to hear about how you do it. Also, as my brew is always espresso, maybe this whole idea for me is off the mark.
I just did a couple 1/3 lb. batches today (will follow up in 6-10 days on how they taste):
El Salvador Orange Bourbon. First crack 5.5 minutes, finish 430F at 8.5 minutes. ( I caved approaching 1C and backed off the heat a bit to even the roast. ...stirred vigorously, moved quick to 430 finish and held for last minute of roast) Full City roast ( a few look closer to City +...)
Colombia Huila San Augustin ( both are easy beans that should handle the heat...) I finished at 7.5 minutes 430F Full City, and started FC at 4.5 min. (really got going at 5 min.)
I'm really reluctant to break my minimum '3 minute from first crack to finish rule' here because I've never had much luck when I did that in the past, so that leaves taking time off the approach to first crack.
It seems that 6 minutes to finish a roast is just too fast for my poppery I.
Posted Thu May 29, 2008, 5:46pm Subject: Re: Perfecting the 6 minute roast profile....
With an air popper there are more variables to deal with than with, say, a sample roaster. Not all air poppers are the same. Power ratings coupled with your electrical grid make for more variation than Herr Davids would allow.
To the point: Find the sweet spot for your roaster at your home. Don't let the "pro roasters" tell you what YOU should be doing. Use their sage advice along with other roasters (and Coffee Geeks too!) and expand your (and our) horizons.
Posted Thu May 29, 2008, 8:02pm Subject: Re: Perfecting the 6 minute roast profile....
Prof Said:
.......... Power ratings coupled with your electrical grid make for more variation than Herr Davids would allow. .........
To the point: Find the sweet spot for your roaster at your home. Don't let the "pro roasters" tell you what YOU should be doing. Use their sage advice along with other roasters (and Coffee Geeks too!) and expand your (and our) horizons.
Forgot to mention I'm using a Variac to control the heater on the Poppery I. That takes care of the grid issue, and gives me another big variable/knob to play with. (complete control of time and temperature during the roast, and fast response to turn it on a dime) On the fast ramps I mentioned above, I was not quite to full power through the roast. (300F warmup and running 110-115 volts except to hold finish temp at the end. ) I could push a bit harder to 120 or 125 volts (but the beans, I don't know Captain, how much more they can take?) Before blasting more beans I will taste and decide where to go based on these 2 batches. (actually the beans look like they did ok)
I arrived at my current 'standard' profile(s) much as you describe: by trial and error, taste, and following advice. I'm am really happy with the consistency and quality of these roasts now, but always looking to explore, experiment, and try new things.
Did you listen to the Ken David's interview? I find it interesting with all his experience (by 2005) that this was an important issue for him to mention about using fluid bed roasters. Almost without exception everyone else has been moving to slow these roasters down. (In my experience so far, this has been the right thing to do, to a point)
...just wondering if anyone else has been up in this direction lately and compared the results.
3o3inaz Senior Member Joined: 27 May 2008 Posts: 3 Location: phx az Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Maestro Plus Drip: trying to find the right one Roaster: hot air popper - don't laugh
Posted Wed Jun 4, 2008, 10:32pm Subject: Re: Perfecting the 6 minute roast profile....
Hi.... I am new to this, but I have been using a hot air poppery for a roaster for over a month. My typical batch is about a 1/2 cup of beans. I warm up the popper for about 20 seconds and dump the beans in. They barely move on there own......slowly, the beans start moving more. Every 30 - 45 seconds I stir the beans up with a wooden stick, usually to help release some of the chaff.
For the Guatemalen and Keynan beans, the first crack is at the 3 minute 30 second mark. It is pretty consistant...give or take 10 seconds. I have stopped the roast at 4:30, pour beans in a metal collendar, cool down with a fan. Beans are cool in less than 30 seconds. I let the beans rest overnight. That batch makes really good coffee in my bunn maker. Sometimes I go to 5 minutes.....coffee still good.
I am still experimenting with beans and roasting times....all in the same popper.
I have gone to 6 minutes before, but the beans are really dark...starting to get oily.....too much roast for me. When I have tried less than 1/2 cup of beans, it takes longer to get to first crack. I have read that if you have less beans, there will be more air-flow which in turn will reduce the heat on the beans - increasing the roasting cycle. I have tried a few times with left over batches on less than 1/2 cup, and every time, it took alot longer to roast.
I know I have alot to learn and alot to taste......but I am enjoying this very much.
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2008, 8:27am Subject: Re: Perfecting the 6 minute roast profile....
Welcome to coffeegeek and coffee roasting Bob. Based on my many years of poppery roasting, I think you should try slowing that roaster down. (that may be tough in Arizona summer!)
I promised to follow up on tasting my fast roasts mentioned above,,, and also the May 30 I did a speedy quick Idido Misty Valley roast at 7'30", just tasted yesterday and this morning.....
(all brew is espresso. (doubles) tasted straight and in Capp.
Start with the Colombia Huila: I don't know how else to put it except that this bean was severely under-roasted and under-developed. The main character (if I can call it that) was a one dimensional woody/tannin/astringent that lingered on the finish. I haven't had this bean long enough to have it figured out, but it responds well to a gentler roast to full city in 11 minutes for me. As comparison I had roasted just such a batch the day before. Pleasing, easy, sweet mild cup. I think it does better to have a little Kenya or a bit more Guatemala blended to spice it up.
The Orange Bourbon is one of my favorite SO espresso in current stash. It works well straight or in capp and plays well with a bit of wild blended in. Nice well balanced character. This fast roast I did on this bean ended up at 8'30". This one came in a bit better then the Colombia, but it still is plain as day it is under-developed and that tannic/astringent is still there to spoil the finish entirely. IT must be rejected as defect roast!
Idido I have been roasting since last October, (22+ lbs now, 66+ batches) I have dialed in a heavenly City+ roast in the 9.5 to 10 minute range, so I thought a good candidate to speed up. I know this bean well.
The fast roast above so completely misses the 'roast window' and aims straight for the trash. This is not even recognizable as the same bean. Serious, the intense fruit and floral simply is not there at all! Completely undeveloped roast. I found this hard to believe..... but really this whole experiment I should already know better!
(in retro- perhaps if I continued to blast ahead in the temps during/after first crack I could have gotten a better result.?. But I have done enough of these for now thanks)
If I read my roast notes more careful, I have never had a bean that I preferred an 8 minute roast to a 10 minute roast. But still I did not expect to fall off a cliff here. On the other end of this time window, much beyond 12 minutes goes from boring to flat fairly quick.
That's for my Poppery I air roaster with Variac controlled heater working roasts mostly in the Full City range. YMMV.
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