LifeandPeace Senior Member Joined: 9 Nov 2007 Posts: 122 Location: formerly here and there
Espresso: coffee Grinder: is Vac Pot: culinary Drip: not Roaster: commodity
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 7:08am Subject: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
Finally got my hands on an air popper. Got a 1250 watt Wearever Popcorn Pumper. Tried two roasts (below and Yemen Sana'ani) last night. First crack began a bit before 3 minutes. Is this a good time? I stopped it at 5 minutes.
Should I try to delay and slow first crack? What's this I hear about extension cords? (I actually used a long one last night.)
Gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2... Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn... Drip: Bunn comm Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 7:35am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
LifeandPeace Said:
Finally got my hands on an air popper. Got a 1250 watt Wearever Popcorn Pumper. Tried two roasts (below and Yemen Sana'ani) last night. First crack began a bit before 3 minutes. Is this a good time? I stopped it at 5 minutes.
Should I try to delay and slow first crack? What's this I hear about extension cords? (I actually used a long one last night.)
Tad fast....probably got some divits (usually caused by too quick a rise in heat)?...betting the cup tasted very bright and a bit thin....nothing wrong with that if it's what you prefer.
Long (100+ feet) small gauge extension cord (you are trying to create a voltage drop with this, ie slow the heat)....fewer beans (more beans slow the air flow resulting in more concentrated heat)....tipping the popper a bit...splitting the fan and heater wiring then adding a variac...quick search here on CG reveals lots of mods and methods.
Mine went about 5-6 minutes to FC. Total time around 7-8 minutes.
CO/UFO with variac control is my choice of roaster, 14 oz of beans, 10 minutes to FC and ~13 minutes to finish at light SC. Smoother, fuller and more mellow...think mid and bass notes.
LifeandPeace Senior Member Joined: 9 Nov 2007 Posts: 122 Location: formerly here and there
Espresso: coffee Grinder: is Vac Pot: culinary Drip: not Roaster: commodity
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 7:43am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
was about to edit post above: I did read Sweet Marias page on this. Their times are exactly what I got without any mods.
Thanks, Gime2much. I'll try reducing the beans. I did 40 grams green last night. I'm not very tecnho-savvy. Maybe I'll call up a technogeek friend about the wiring. I wonder if simply directing a fan into the chamber would reduce the temp/slow the rise?
I just roasted last night. Probably won't taste til later today.
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 8:58am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
Reducing the bean load is the quick and easy way to extend the roast time in a popper. It is not intituitive, but what happens is the increased air flow reduces the temperature.
The extension cord thing works but it lowers the fan speed as well as the heater power so it negates some of the effect.
The best approach is to seperate the heater and blower so you can have independant control of each.
We can point you to posts about Variacs and Mike McCoffee's boosted dimmer if you are interiested. If you are not comfortable with electricty, your friend may be able to help you with the mods.
Phil
LifeandPeace Said:
was about to edit post above: I did read Sweet Marias page on this. Their times are exactly what I got without any mods.
Thanks, Gime2much. I'll try reducing the beans. I did 40 grams green last night. I'm not very tecnho-savvy. Maybe I'll call up a technogeek friend about the wiring. I wonder if simply directing a fan into the chamber would reduce the temp/slow the rise?
I just roasted last night. Probably won't taste til later today.
Small conical shaped bits blown out of the bean caused by heating too fast in the initial stage. At the start of a roast you are mostly driving the moisture from the bean, too quickly and the internal steam pressure simply blows a small hole in the bean. Seems to cause no harm, just an indicator of a fast roast IMHO.
nu2Roast Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Florida Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 9:30am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
I'm pretty new to roasting so I don't have much experience either. But I've played around with roasting in a popper as well. I live in Florida so the roasts go quickly. I tried to slow the roasts down by using some of the suggestions. I've added an extension cord, I've plugged a few things into the outlet the extension is using. I added a chimney to the popper, I've tilted it also. I guess they've extended the time a bit but not too much.
At first I was using a smaller amount of beans, because it's supposed to extent the roast times. And I guess it does, but for me, it seems if I go below 70g or so it ruins the roast. The cracks are just not really right. The first crack happens, but it's it's very quiet and it's over very quickly. Sometimes the second crack never even happens. I guess it never gets hot enough? Not really sure what's going on. The beans do get darker though but the second crack is not that great. The end result is kinda like starbucks burnt, but very thin in a way. I didn't like it at all.
But if I add 90g or so the roast is very different. The cracks are MUCH louder, and longer and you can tell the difference between the 2 cracks. A much better result. The problem is that it does go faster.
So I've added a temp probe, and I monitor the temp, and then turn the popper off as it climbs maybe 20 degrees C, and then stir the beans with the popper off. As soon as the temp drops I re-start the popper, let it climb about 20C, and stop the popper and stir. I've been able to extend the time to first crack to 7 mins or so. Once I get to first crack tho, I just let it go without stopping the popper anymore. The total roast times are somewhere about 10-12 mins or so to second crack, which is where I usually end it.
Does anyone have an suggestions or comments on doing is this way? Is it a bad idea?
Gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2... Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn... Drip: Bunn comm Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 10:20am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
nu2Roast Said:
I'm pretty new to roasting so I don't have much experience either. But I've played around with roasting in a popper as well. I live in Florida so the roasts go quickly. I tried to slow the roasts down by using some of the suggestions. I've added an extension cord, I've plugged a few things into the outlet the extension is using. I added a chimney to the popper, I've tilted it also. I guess they've extended the time a bit but not too much.
At first I was using a smaller amount of beans, because it's supposed to extent the roast times. And I guess it does, but for me, it seems if I go below 70g or so it ruins the roast. The cracks are just not really right. The first crack happens, but it's it's very quiet and it's over very quickly. Sometimes the second crack never even happens. I guess it never gets hot enough? Not really sure what's going on. The beans do get darker though but the second crack is not that great. The end result is kinda like starbucks burnt, but very thin in a way. I didn't like it at all.
But if I add 90g or so the roast is very different. The cracks are MUCH louder, and longer and you can tell the difference between the 2 cracks. A much better result. The problem is that it does go faster.
So I've added a temp probe, and I monitor the temp, and then turn the popper off as it climbs maybe 20 degrees C, and then stir the beans with the popper off. As soon as the temp drops I re-start the popper, let it climb about 20C, and stop the popper and stir. I've been able to extend the time to first crack to 7 mins or so. Once I get to first crack tho, I just let it go without stopping the popper anymore. The total roast times are somewhere about 10-12 mins or so to second crack, which is where I usually end it.
Does anyone have an suggestions or comments on doing is this way? Is it a bad idea?
Generally known as baking the beans. Yea, bad idea. The temperature should never drop, you want to slow the heat rise but not stop it otherwise you will stall the roast.
I strongly suggest searching for past related threads here on CG. Many folks posting here have been where you are at and through experience have written about their mistakes and learnings. Tons of good info to be had for the taking.
gimpy Senior Member Joined: 8 May 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Flagstaff, Az Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Zassenhaus Drip: the AeroPress Roaster: Walgreen's hot air corn...
Posted Sat Sep 6, 2008, 8:20pm Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
nu2roast, I currently do not turn off the popper like you are doing, but I used to. I have cooked many roasts that way in the past doing it very similar, but not exactly, like you are doing it. As far as I know, I never "baked" the beans. I did bake the beans one time that I know of (at least I think that is what happened, as they really tasted flat), but I do not remember if I was turning the popper off/on at that time (I don't think I was).
Anyway, like you I used/use a temperature probe to keep watch on the bean temps. I did my roast as follows: I turned the popper on and monitored the rise in temperature until it hit 300*. I then turned the popper off, and like you continued to stir the beans. I left the popper turned off for, anywhere from about 20 to 45 seconds. When the temp started to drop one or two degrees, I then turned the popper back on. I let the temperature go back up and when it hit 375*, I turned it off again, and then turned it back on again after a one or two degree drop in temperature. At first, I turned the popper off somewhere around 200*, I think, but quit doing it at that temperature, for no special reason. Anyway, I only turn the popper off those two times during the roast. Those temperatures were just two random temperatures that I picked for no special reason. I probably roasted my coffee that way for 5 or 6 months before I quit using that method. My method probably extended the roast anywhere from 1-2 minutes, possibly more.
I think it is a good way to extend the roast, as long as you keep a close eye on the temperatures and the beans taste good when brewed. I think you need to be consistent in the way you use your probe. The very end of my probe stays about 1/2 to 1 inch above the bottom of the roasting chamber, in the vicinity of the air vents. Again, I did many roasts using this method, with very good results, IMO. The coffee tasted good. I was getting 8 or 9 minutes out of my roasts using this method, along with the very long extension cords (100 ft or so), and tilting my popper 30-45*. I continue to use the ext. cord and tilting method and still get good 7-9 minute roasts now. I think tilting the popper lets a lot of the air coming from the vents miss the coffee beans which is a reason that this slows the roast.
Anyway, if the beans aren't tasting flat/baked, then try/keep on experimenting with your roasts, until you get it close to the way you like it. That's what I did.
Using my Walgreens $10.00 popper, I consistently get 7 1/2 minute to 8 1/2 minute roasts in the city to city+ range. I don't like to take it into second crack anymore, although I used to go there. I do live in a cooler climate, so I am sure that also helps extend the roast some, too.
nu2Roast Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Florida Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sun Sep 7, 2008, 6:08am Subject: Re: Delaying 1st crack in an air popper?
Thanks Gime2much and Gimpy.
I'm not really sure if the coffee is tasting flat or not. I don't think I have enough knowledge yet to make that call. I can say that it does taste better than if I use coffee beans from the store and grind those.
Also I don't think my palette is refined enough to sense all the flavors other people are sensing. I bought a sampler pack of coffees from SM to roast, but they all taste pretty similar to me. I don't get a sense of that much difference between them.
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