germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Jan 1, 2010, 7:27am Subject: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
I am looking to get a 1KG roaster and the Toper Cafemino is the leader in the search, though I am waiting to see what Diedrich's IR-1 is going to be like.
The question I have immediately is what is the minimum batch size the Cafemino can roast? I am hoping I can still roast 225g batches on micro lots and blend development but keep reading people say the Cafemino works best at it's 1kg load.
Does anyone have an after burner on their 1kg roaster? or the Ambex no-loss stack?
Breeze Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2006 Posts: 733 Location: St. Croix, V.I. Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Pasquini Livia S Grinder: Mazzer Mini/Rocky Drip: TechniVorm/Krups MB Roaster: Toper 1 kilo
Posted Fri Jan 1, 2010, 8:41am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster
A good percentage of my roasts are at kilo capacity and the machine handles it fine. The only hitch is with some dry process smaller beans. A combo of the chaff and small beans want to get stuck in front of the sight glass. It's no big deal, I fish out eight to ten under roasted beans from the cooling tray. This only happens with a full charge, on a few beans.
1/2 loads are fine, I adjust temps and work the air damper to insure a correct profile.
1/4 loads are fine as well, which surprised me. I do this when I roast for my own needs and don't want the beans around longer than my preference. Again, I work the temp and air and achieve proper 15 minute +/- depending on the profile, no problem.
The factory recommended gas pressure setting is 25psi. I run just shy of 30, 25 did not seem to pack sufficient punch.
I'm jetted for propane and do not have an afterburner. Unless you're in a pretty tight spot and don't have any breeze you should be ok. On a normal roast profile the smoke is not excessive, but obviously needs to be vented out of the building. Certain areas have codes that require an afterburner, or so I've been led to believe.
The cost, compared to the Diedrich, as I recall was favorable. The build quality is massive. I don't know who's handling them now in the states as it appears Delaware Coffee Co. has moved on to some Italian sheet metal unit. One could deal directly with Toper though, the 50hz electric motors work fine at 60hz so you don't have conversion issues. If they have a dealer, they could inform you as well, I suppose.
I've had my unit right at two years and run 100 lbs +/- through it a month. My volume is slowly rising and I could easily go to 200lbs a month before capacity became an issue.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Jan 1, 2010, 10:59am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster
Robust Roasters are the distributers for Toper in North America now and they have been the most helpful so far. Diedrich doesn't seem to want to talk about the new IR-1 until it is being shipped and that appears to be delayed but I have time to see what comes of their new machine and hopefully see it at Coffee Fest in march. The Diedrich is going to cost more then the Toper and I have read so many happy Topper fans, not that I have read anything bad about the Diedrich. When I was thinking 1KG was to big the San Franciscan would probably be my choice for a 1LB roaster but I quickly convinced myself it was to small and not much less money.
I dream of the day when I can roast 12LBs in 2 hours unlike my 3 hour 3lb day I am having at the moment and really the Hottop does it's best work with a 150g load.
The setup is unknown since we are trying to find a new house which also allows me to take my time with research instead of I need this yesterday approach. I am not worried so much about codes since this will truly be a home roaster but I don't want to upset neighbor's either. Insurance and fire reason's might have me build a shred for it but would prefer a basement or garage setup. I know from doing 1/2 pound back to back roasts for a few hours on my deck or even venting out of the house people blocks away depending on wind know I am roasting. I think an after burner is over kill but I am very curious about the No-loss stack.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010, 8:21am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster
I am ready to pull the trigger on the Cafemino but hesitate waiting to hear if anything ground breaking or even just impressive is coming with Diedrich's new Ir-1 model. It is replacing the HR-1 home roaster but they don't seem to take home roasters (the person) seriously or maybe it is me they are not taking seriously.
Posted Wed Jan 13, 2010, 8:55am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster
While I am not in the market for a machine in this class I always enjoy reading about the "next level" of roaster. I do drool over my friends shop roaster, a Diedrich IR - 3. It's built like a tank and does everything a roaster should do. I do wish that it had dual temp display and would show environmental as well as bean mass but adding an addition probe should be easy even though in his shop he doesn't see a need for it.
I've recently settled on roasting 800 gram batches currently (green weight) so I don't feel the pressure to upgrade based on volume. In December 5450 g were roasted that's just about 5.5 kg or just over 12 pounds. I gifted some coffee but I am just amazed at the amount of coffee that my wife and I can consume. A 1 kg roaster would allow me to roast less. It's just hard to justify a larger machine for me based on volume and I am very happy with what is coming out of my roaster. If I roasted more for the "neighborhood" or even just a couple of friends it would be interesting to step up.
Always interesting threads and I look forward to you sharing more info on the new Diedrich IR - 1 as well as learning more about the Topper units. Thanks for sharing.
I looked up the Cafemino web site and in the description of the machines it said: " Roasting Time : 10 Minutes to 12 Minutes. 10 Minutes for Brown roast , 12 Minutes for Dark roast." Then under the video section under gas it shows the roaster hitting 234 at well past 17 minutes and they dump the beans into the cooler at over 19 minutes. That just seems like a long time to roast to me. First I thought the written text was very fast, a 10 min city roast is fast to me. But a 19 min plus roast is dragging to me as well. What did you think of the videos? The other observation that jumps out at me from watching the video is how little aggitation occurs in the sight glass below the sampler. In my own roasting if my bean were aggitated that little I would scorch them on one side. The video and text that I am referring to can be found here: http://www.cafemino.com/cafemino.php?sayfa_id=350&kategori_id=350&id=4&lng=1
jammin Senior Member Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 658 Location: Boise Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Speedster, Cremina Grinder: K10, Vario-W with Ditting... Vac Pot: Hario Drip: manual Roaster: quest m3, hottop b
Posted Wed Jan 13, 2010, 9:11am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
That Diedrich IR-1 looks very appealing! I would like to hear more about it if anyone has some experience with it as well. I probably don't want to know how much it costs...
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 917 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Jan 14, 2010, 5:45pm Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
The gas Topers may well be able to roast a 1/4 size batch, but the electric Toper will not, as the way heat is applied to beans is very different and it uses more radiant energy rather than convection. The electric Cafemino roasts best at 750g to 1kg, any less and the roasts are more difficult to get right, with some bean types being well nigh impossible. I didn't see you mention which type you were getting?
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Jan 15, 2010, 4:58am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
DavecUK Said:
The gas Topers may well be able to roast a 1/4 size batch, but the electric Toper will not, as the way heat is applied to beans is very different and it uses more radiant energy rather than convection. The electric Cafemino roasts best at 750g to 1kg, any less and the roasts are more difficult to get right, with some bean types being well nigh impossible. I didn't see you mention which type you were getting?
My eyes kind of glazed over with the info Clay posted on Cafemino roast times. (I have not watched the video or read the text but I take his report as accurate).
For a full kilo charge, I always begin with the shut-off temp. set at 200 C. I'm always looking at fifteen minutes as being the envelope but depending on my profile, adding additional air to the drum at certain stages can intentionally result in 16/17/18 minute roasts. I also vary things after first crack is well underway by reducing the cut out max temp to 195/190C. depending on what I'm looking for. With no drum cooling air applied and shut off set at 200C. I'd be barely into first crack at 10/12 minutes, assuming a 1 kilo bean charge. I can easily though push beans into 2nd in fifteen minutes, assuming a sprint to the finish was what I was trying to achieve.
Sight Glass: DaveUK has commented on this, as well as I. There does appear to be a ledge, the diameter of the sight glass. With full kilo loads, smallish beans with excess chaff, some beans do get trapped here. I've tried hauling the sample spoon 3/4 out of the drum and sometimes I'm convinced this helps. The shaft for the spoon enters directly above the glass. At worst, 99% + of the roast is proper with a need to cull ten/twelve albino beans from the cooling bin, post roast. This is a design flaw, in my opinion, but not a deal breaker.
I stated that 1/4 loads were workable on the Toper. Do I really consider that an optimum charge for best results. No, but in a pinch it works for me. Toper recommends that the unit run at 25psi, gas pressure. I've bumped mine to around 29psi and occasionally if I'm looking for a specific profile that requires, I'll dial back to 25. I like having this adjustability, even though I don't use it often.
I wonder what the present cost difference between Diedrich and Toper is. Currency fluctuations, labor cost differences between Idaho and Turkey and shipping distances/duty are among the variables. I suppose as well, Diedrich is positioned as a "Premium" product while I guess Toper is "Turkish Industrial" so I imagine the Diedrich remains priced well above the Toper. Were someone wanting to trade me straight up, a kilo Diedrich for my Toper, I'd probably take the bait, but I am not dissatisfied with the Cafemino. Minor issues are trumped by build quality and as I've said before, there are workarounds for minor issues but not for lack of build quality.
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