Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 6:58am Subject: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care (Longer term Storage)
So I was having this discussion with a friend of how best to care for and distribute home-roasted beans for maximum shelf longevity.
I tried some experiments - using some washed foil bags and seals (with one-way valves) and also vacuum seal packing (foodsaver) storage.
I also know that freshly roasted beans off-gas C02, and that's why they don't use complete seals on the bags (one-way valves) when roasted and packaged, but I was also interested in how much CO2 they actually give off.
I also know that the key to keeping roasted coffee shelf-stable is keeping oxygen away from the beans.
So,
Packaging 60g of freshly roasted Giri-Estates Indian Coffee in minimum-cut foodsaver bag (meaning very little extra material when vacuumed and sealed), 15 minutes after roasting and cooled. Completely sealed and good vacuum pack.
In 36 hours, the bag expanded enough to pop. Interesting.
At the same time, I tried 100g in a used/washed but sealed coffee foil bag. It expanded but the one-way valve allowed the gas to escape. Also interesting.
Colombia, rested in a baggie inside a closed container 24 hours, then vacuum stored in a double-sized foodsaver bag. Also sealed 14g of same (enough for a pour-over cone filtered 8-9 oz cup of coffee) vacuum packed in a double sized foodsaver bag (to allow room for expansion).
4 days later, these have not expanded to the point of bulging, but have lost the tight vacuum packing of the foodsaver. However, they also seem to have stabilized. I suspect the gas that has expanded the packaging is CO2, which should be inert for the bean for longer-term storage.
I also have 60g of Giri-Estates and 60g of Ethiopian vacuum packed approx 60 hours after roasting (while stored in a baggie inside an airtight container). These have remained tightly vacuum packed, so these obviously have not off-gassed since vacuum sealed. These are going to my brother in a few days by mail (he loves coffee too).
So, if the key is keeping oxygen away from the roasted bean, and they off-gas CO2 for some period after roasting, but stop off-gassing about the time they "peak" in post-roasting flavor, is vacuum packing after roasting a valid way to package up and send to friends or roast ahead for future?
The rest of the experiment is to repeat with probably my standard (the Giri-Estates). I plan on roasting a batch of coffee, and set up the following samples:
1) 14g in a ziplock freezer baggie. I'll open it every couple days 2) 14g in a ziplock freezer baggie, stored in the cupboard. 3) 14g in triple-sized vacuum packed foodsaver bag (to allow room for expansion), immediately after roasting/cooling, stored in the cupboard. 4) 14g in double-sized vacuum packed foodsaver bag, 24hr rest in ziplock inside a sealed container, stored in the cupboard. 5) 14g in normal-sized vacuum packed foodsaver bag, 72 hr rest in ziplock inside sealed container, stored in the cupboard.
Then, I'll brew up the five cups at 6 months after roasting to see what happens. I'm inclined to make up samples 6-9 as a repeat of 2-5, and then try them at 1 year post roasting. It will be interesting to see what flavor differences there are between them.
Any predictions? :-)
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
jkoll42 Senior Member Joined: 2 Jan 2010 Posts: 465 Location: Pennsylvania Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: VBM DD V3, Gaggia Baby Class Grinder: Cimbali Max Hybrid, Bunn... Drip: Technivorm, Chemex Roaster: Honey Badger 1K, HG/BM
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:31am Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
Prediction: They will all be equally stale and undrinkable.
I actually wanted to do a similar experiment but have no time so I would be interested to see results, however...... with your current setup all of the coffee will be completely stale after 6 months. There really is no point in doing this for that length of time. Coffee is stale after about 2 weeks unless frozen.
If I could make a suggestion, why not simulate various storage methods to see what keeps the coffee fresher during a period when it is still considered fresh. Perhaps cup the beans at 7 and 14 days while simulating daily use by opening and closing the storage method daily. I think a one way valve, vacuum bag, open bowl and ball jar would be representative of the various mothods commonly used.
This is something that I would be very interested to see the results of.
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 1:45pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
You have a very good point, but not sure that all coffee goes undrinkably stale after 2 weeks in roasted bean form in a sealed bag with 1-way valve. Check many of the bags on a Starbuck's shelf and you see many are at least 3 weeks old and have "use by" dates numbering into the months - unless I was reading the date codes wrong. I'll have to go and recheck...
My thinking is that oxygen is the enemy to coffee freshness. So if you can keep the oxygen out of it, and the temperature below enzymatic reaction temps (e.g. ambient to cupboard cool) it should remain fairly stable. You're right that if you reduce the temp even more, it should reduce any other reactions that are anaerobic, so there is the freezing long-term stored roasted coffee beans.
Then, there's packet-type pre ground coffee - that isn't undrinkable even though many packets are >6 months (although arguments are sure to ensue about how "drinkable" a 1 year old warehoused K-cup actually is)...
But, you've got me rethinking my experiment.
Methods of long term storage: (ZL) Ziplock or Sealed cannister/hasp with gasket or Plastic airtight storage container. (CB) 1 way valve coffee bag (VB) vacuum foodsaver packets/bags Mason Jar
Other Factors: Storage Temp (anaerobic reactions) How many times opened (vacuum foodsaver is one-time use, other methods deal with periodic exposure to oxygen), probably set this to the sample intervals. Rest post roast prior to longer term storage. (immediate, 24 hr, 72 or 84 hours, CO2 off-gassing and effects on stabilization)
and time horizons: 7 days post roast 14 days post roast 1 month post roast 3 month post roast 6 month post roast (assuming some samples are still drinkable, if not, drop the stale ones and continue the experiment, I'm still interested in if longer term storage is possible) 1 year post roast.
I would never use an open bowl uncovered storage method, and since I have several permutations already, I'll probably not use that method. We already know ambient coffee exposed to air in an open bowl will go stale. One would never store coffee long term this way.
I think for the 1-way valve coffee bag, all the samples for the different time horizons could be out of the same bag. Probably 2 (one cupboard, one freezer), and opened only to obtain a sample for each of the sample times. Now that I think of it, maybe I can do that for each of the methods except the vacuum bag. I don't want a dozen mason jars and a dozen ziplock bags in my freezer. LOL
Crap, this is getting pretty big... I think the Mason Jar and Ziploc/airtight cannister are simply duplicates - I like the cannister because they are not as breakable and they are airtight and readily available (think ziplock freezer back inside a ziplock storage container).
My Behmor yields only about 200g of roasted coffee (of my go-to standard bean, the Giri-Estates) at a time, so I'll have to make 5 batches or maybe 6 batches. Probably should blend them together post-roast, I'd need a bit more than 1 kg of roasted coffee. Yikes.
My test samples would be: ZL 60g Frozen <4 hrs post roast ZL 60g Cupboard <4 hrs post roast ZL 60g Frozen 24 hrs post roast ZL 60g Cupboard 24 hrs post roast ZL 60g Frozen 72 hrs post roast ZL 60g Cupboard 72 hrs post roast CB 60g Frozen <4 hrs post roast CB 60g Cupboard <4 hrs post roast CB 60g Frozen 24 hrs post roast CB 60g Cupboard 24 hrs post roast CB 60g Frozen 72 hrs post roast CB 60g Cupboard 72 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Frozen <4 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Cupboard <4 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Frozen 24 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Cupboard 24 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Frozen 72 hrs post roast VB 6 - 10g Cupboard 72 hrs post roast
and the sampling would consist of making 18 cups of coffee.
My head spins... LOL
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 2:19pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
jkoll42 Said:
Prediction: They will all be equally stale and undrinkable.
I actually wanted to do a similar experiment but have no time so I would be interested to see results, however...... with your current setup all of the coffee will be completely stale after 6 months. There really is no point in doing this for that length of time. Coffee is stale after about 2 weeks unless frozen.
If I could make a suggestion, why not simulate various storage methods to see what keeps the coffee fresher during a period when it is still considered fresh. Perhaps cup the beans at 7 and 14 days while simulating daily use by opening and closing the storage method daily. I think a one way valve, vacuum bag, open bowl and ball jar would be representative of the various mothods commonly used.
This is something that I would be very interested to see the results of.
I agree totally. I'd also like to see the results from 7 and 14 days storage with various methods you mention.
Personally, I use Mason jars that I don't tighten until the next day. The 150g that I had been roasting at a time fits perfectly in the jar and I get two pots of coffee out of it. My espresso is an exception (I make a double amount) and it goes into a Bodum glass container that has air-tight seal. I don't fully close that until the second day either. The espresso seems to stay drinkable much longer (up to the 14 days) but I never have the other roasts around even a week. We drink espresso only on the weekends. Although, my Behmor batch of espresso is so much better that I've been sneaking an espresso in every other day or so after lunch! Huge improvement with the espresso using the Behmor.
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 2:31pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
I recently purchased some oxygen absorbers to use for short-term coffee storage, but they are really meant for long term storage. The combination of the oxygen absorbers and freezer might do the trick for 6 months storage. Mitsubishi is the original manufacturer, and they even market a type specifically for coffee that absorbs both oxygen and CO2. Click here for brief information on that.
Basically oxygen absorbers rely on oxidation of iron to remove the oxygen. THey are said to create heat during the process, but I don't believe that would harm the beans. THey are also said to not work as quickly at cold temperatures (although there are some fast-acting types that do), so may be best to have them do their work before freezing. They come in different sizes, based on the volume of air designed to be effective for (20cc-500cc). The retail outlet I used was Sorbent Systems
I have not yet opened the bag (once opened they need to be used or resealed in a vacuum), but plan today to seal up some roasted beans. I plan to vac-seal in a mason jar using foodsaver, and an oxygen absorber inside. I will also include an oxygen detection tablet to see if the seal stays good. I do not plan to store for long term - just a couple weeks. If that works okay (keeps seal and oxygen free) I may try for a longer test later.
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,823 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 2:41pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
Netphilosopher Said:
You have a very good point, but not sure that all coffee goes undrinkably stale after 2 weeks in roasted bean form in a sealed bag with 1-way valve. Check many of the bags on a Starbuck's shelf and you see many are at least 3 weeks old and have "use by" dates numbering into the months - unless I was reading the date codes wrong. I'll have to go and recheck...
And most starbucks coffee is stale. The use by dates are just that, starbucks' recommendation of when to use them by. From what I know, there is no (for the consumer) markings that tell you when the coffee was roasted.
Netphilosopher Said:
My thinking is that oxygen is the enemy to coffee freshness.
Oxidation is probably the biggest enemy to coffee freshness, but there's some other things happening like continual CO2 emission and the oils can go rancid.
I don't believe coffee goes undrinkably stale after 2 weeks when dealing with a brewing method such as press, drip, vacpot, etc. I do find coffee much past the 2 week mark not suitable for espresso. I think a major part of this is getting a decent pull becomes so difficult.
Dana, I'm really interested in the oxygen absorbers. Please report back your findings!
No they are a one-shot thing. THey are cheap though - Even in the small quantity I bought (200 20cc absorbers), after shipping and a small-order surcharge, they came out to about $.16 each I think.
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Jan 21, 2011, 3:36pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
Dana,
Let us know how they work out. I found one of these at the bottom of a can of Wasabi covered peas and research turned up links to using these for emergency rations / survival food stores for preserving grains for years at a time.
I read the opening post on this thread about caring and distributing homeroast, but I'm unclear about the original poster's goals? What timeframe do you need to store the roasted coffee over? After thinking about the oxygen absorbers and my own personal needs, I decided that freezing my roasted coffee in canning jars for up to a month or two was going to work for me (except for that jar of Sweet Maria's New Classic Espresso that I dug out of a freezer after a year) and any extra expense probably wasn't going to make much of a difference for the short timeframes I deal with.
Posted Tue Jan 25, 2011, 7:37pm Subject: Re: Post Roast Coffee Bean Care
Netphilosopher Said:
You have a very good point, but not sure that all coffee goes undrinkably stale after 2 weeks in roasted bean form in a sealed bag with 1-way valve. Check many of the bags on a Starbuck's shelf and you see many are at least 3 weeks old and have "use by" dates numbering into the months - unless I was reading the date codes wrong. I'll have to go and recheck...
YES, all coffee beans go stale after 2 weeks. As a home roaster, this is easy for you to verify.
When I started using the Behmor, I roasted a pound of coffee. I put the beans in a 1-way valve bag on the counter. I used the beans for drip coffee every day, and noticed that the flavor of the coffee started to fade after 7 days. Now I store my "extra" coffee beans in 1-way valve bags in the freezer.
<DATE CODES> The date codes on coffee such as Starbucks are a joke. Unless it gives you information like "roasted on this date", the coffee is likely MONTHS old. I went to a local grocery store that carries coffee beans from Intelligentsia Coffee and Counter Culture Coffee. I was SO excited, since they both actually show the date the beans were roasted. My excitement turned to dismay when I realized that the date was in October 2010. The coffee was probably better than Starbucks, but definitely way too old.
Life is too short to drink bad wine (or bad coffee)
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