Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 7:51am Subject: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
Hi there,
After a lot of home roasting research, I purchased a Hottop B roaster. Initially I had thought about a Behmor or a Gene, but the more I learned about the roasting process, the more I realized what my desires were for the machine I bought. I wanted a roaster that gave me full control over the roast. While there will definitely be a learning curve, I am really excited to dig in (I've been reading and researching the roasting process for quite a while now). The only worry I had (and this went for all roasters) was how I was going to handle the smoke. A standing fan in our staircase (smoke detector is at the top of stairs) and I will be roasting in front of a partially opened window with a window fan set to exhaust seems to be enough to help exhaust the smoke outside. I can almost guarantee that I will eventually create a more efficient method of exhausting the smoke (winter is way too windy and cold for me to roast outdoors here or in a garage), but for now, this seems to be the best option based on people I have spoken to.
So, tonight will be my first roast. The roaster came with 5lbs of Guatemala Antigua Finca La Folie. For the most part I plan on following the profile guidelines laid out in the manual. I will be looking to sufficiently dry and exhaust humidity in the drying phase and then pull back the heat prior to first crack, so as to control the roast, and eject beans sometime after first crack without hitting second. SM recommends City+, so that is the goal. Prior to receiving and reading the manual, I have seen many recommendations for 225g of beans, while the manual recommends 250g. I assume it is smart to start at 250, but wanted to hear what others think and have experienced.
Also, does anyone have any general advice for someone heading into their first roast? Initially, I had planned on trying some pan roasting before the roaster arrived, but was not home enough during the holidays to make it happen. I tried to pick a bean that would have nice clear first/second crack sounds, but am expecting to encounter a learning curve as I move forward with this.
Whether it be nailing the sweet spot on a nel pour over, or experimenting with a brew method I have never used before, I love the coffee process. In my life, everything moves way too fast, so slowing everything down for something that used to be equally fast and mindless is so relaxing and fun. The roasting process is just another step in this fast growing passion of mine. Thanks for any advice people have! I'm excited to get started.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 9:28am Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
Relax. The Hottop B is (IMO, admittedly prejudiced) is the best home roaster currently available, and comes with an excellent manual. *1 The window fan should be more than sufficient to handle the smoke. One trick is to pull the rear filter up a bit to increase airflow which makes it a LOT easier to direct the smoke out the window using your window fan. Then control the smoke using the fan speed control of the Hottop.
The cracks are VERY easy to hear. Also, look on the Hottop USA website as there is an article on "advanced profiling" for the B model that will be a good guide. It was written for the older thermocouple (the round one). If you have the new sensor (K probe) the temperatures will be a bit different on the display but the overall procedure is the same. The new probe works quite well and you will find that the cracks are very predictable using the display.
The manual specifies 250 grams but going as low as 225 is fine. It will create a faster roast, but that also depends on your line voltage to some extent.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 10:48am Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
frcn Said:
Relax. The Hottop B is (IMO, admittedly prejudiced) is the best home roaster currently available, and comes with an excellent manual. *1 The window fan should be more than sufficient to handle the smoke. One trick is to pull the rear filter up a bit to increase airflow which makes it a LOT easier to direct the smoke out the window using your window fan. Then control the smoke using the fan speed control of the Hottop.
The cracks are VERY easy to hear. Also, look on the Hottop USA website as there is an article on "advanced profiling" for the B model that will be a good guide. It was written for the older thermocouple (the round one). If you have the new sensor (K probe) the temperatures will be a bit different on the display but the overall procedure is the same. The new probe works quite well and you will find that the cracks are very predictable using the display.
The manual specifies 250 grams but going as low as 225 is fine. It will create a faster roast, but that also depends on your line voltage to some extent.
Thanks for the response! I read the manual yesterday when it arrives and did find it very helpful and well written (nice work!). I will likely start with 250g then and move from there if the roast seems to be taking too long. I had the voltage in my kitchen outlets measured and they read 120, so I am doubtful that line voltage will cause too many issues.
I did see the advanced profiling guide on the website a while back, but if I am remembering correctly, it was in the manual with my machine as well.
For clarification on where exactly a City+ roast falls, am I aiming just for some point between the end of first crack and the beginning of second? I have read that City is typically right after first ends, while City+ is achieved with a tad bit more development towards second. I assume this is where smell and sight will become hugely helpful as I learn the sights, sounds, and smells of the roasting process. I read one take on City/City+ as a change in smoke aromas - becoming sweeter.
Also, as a rule of thumb, is a 24-48 hour degassing period a good baseline? I will be putting the beans into a mason jar with the lid left loose, so that the gas can escape. After about 12-24 hours I would then seal, or move it to the container that I use for storing beans for consumption based on my current supply.
I know that much of this is learned as you actually put some time into roasting coffee, so I am really excited to begin. Thanks again, fern.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 11:47am Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
I suggest using a kitchen timer and start it once you drop the beans it will help you with repeatability. Your first roast may not go perfect but it will be a learning experience. Keep good notes on all roast and reference those when roasting similar beans. Your second roast drop the temperature 10*F before the temp 1C hit on the first roast. I have around 30 roast on my Hottop B with the new K type probe and every roast has hit 1C +/- 1*F of my original roast 1C temperature. Have fun and enjoy!
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 12:30pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
As far as when to stop the first roast, hit eject at the very first click of second crack. Why? It is a good way to learn where second crack happens. it also depends on the tastes you prefer, so this is a good starting point for your brewing method. If you want more acidity, stop sooner. if you want more balanced flavors next time, go about fifteen seconds into second. As early as right at the end of first crack all the way to very active second can work depending on your flavor preference or brewing method. Keep records of each roast and then add taste notations as you consume the coffee. It won't take long before you have a very good handle on things.
I program in max time and max temp as the target points, then drop the beans in at about 210 F (not at the sound of the beep).
As mentioned, you will be pleased at the repeatable temperatures for the roast phases from batch to batch. It makes it really easy to achieve repeatable results with the "B" model.
Also, two or three days rest will help the flavor after roasting, particularly on beans with more complex flavors. For something simple like a Colombian, you can take the beans from the cooling tray to the grinder and get an excellent cup.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 12:39pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
frcn Said:
As far as when to stop the first roast, hit eject at the very first click of second crack. Why? It is a good way to learn where second crack happens. it also depends on the tastes you prefer, so this is a good starting point for your brewing method. If you want more acidity, stop sooner. if you want more balanced flavors next time, go about fifteen seconds into second. As early as right at the end of first crack all the way to very active second can work depending on your flavor preference or brewing method. Keep records of each roast and then add taste notations as you consume the coffee. It won't take long before you have a very good handle on things.
I program in max time and max temp as the target points, then drop the beans in at about 210 F (not at the sound of the beep).
As mentioned, you will be pleased at the repeatable temperatures for the roast phases from batch to batch. It makes it really easy to achieve repeatable results with the "B" model.
Also, two or three days rest will help the flavor after roasting, particularly on beans with more complex flavors. For something simple like a Colombian, you can take the beans from the cooling tray to the grinder and get an excellent cup.
Great info. Thanks. I think that roasting to the very start of second sounds smart for the first roast, even though I prefer lighter roasts. I mainly brew my coffee using my V60 and Nel (cloth with the V60), but do enjoy making french press coffee as well. Typically, the roasts I buy are in the realm of City+ and never look like they have gone much past the first couple seconds of 2nd crack. Up to now, I have bought almost all of my coffee from Barismo and Terroir. As I mentioned, I will be roasting a Guatemalan Antigua (Finca La Folie from SM) and have 5lbs, so I will have lots of the same bean to practice with. What I am thinking about doing is letting it rest for 24 hours and will sample it then and again at 48 hours and again at 72 hours to get a feel for the progression.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 3:44pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
one thing I would do, is run 7 oz of beans, I prefer 6.5 oz, set the default time and temp, use these settings for a while before tweek a roast. Learn the 1st and second crack, also time and temp. I usually preheat the roaster on colder days and when it call for beans I hit eject and let to cool nromally then start a roast allowing it to cool automaticly. If the roaster will emit a beep if it goes over temp too soon, so sit and watch. and listen.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 8:13pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
I just finished my first roast and it seems to have gone well. The roast lasted 18 minutes from preheat to the drop. They began turning tan and the drying phase ended around 16:30 into the roast (from a max time of 25). I dropped the temp and turned on the fan during the drying phase and it seemed to draw it out nicely. The first loud pop of first crack was at 12:33 and seemed to be going strong by 11:30-11:40. It was completely done and silent by 10:30. I tried to listen really hard for the beginning of second crack and kept thinking I was hearing something (now I think I actually was) like a light light snap. Then at about 8 minutes (temperature display read 399ish) I heard a definite snap or two and dropped the beans. Unfortunately, I didn't record the time when I dropped the beans, so the time it took the roaster to heat up is included in the total time. I dropped at ~2010 degrees.
Many of my times towards the end of the roast are a bit iffy, as I was paying closer attention to the beans and just getting used to everything. I noticed in the manual that it says that around 400 degrees, 1st crack ends. My roaster's display never reached 400, so I am not sure what happened there. The beans look evenly roasted, although a bit darker than I am used to seeing as I favor lighter roasts. The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not I was in fact hearing 2nd crack and it was really that faint. If that was the case, these were roasted a little into 2nd. I ejected when I was confident I heard a crackle. Based on the estimated time between cracks (I forgot to write it down so I did it based on what I remember seeing) which I have written down as 2 to 2.5 minutes, the roast seems to have been kept in control. It was amazing how fast the time flew once I hit first crack. At first I thought it had only been seconds between cracks, but then I saw that two minutes had disappeared from the timer.
On the smoke end of things, the window fan handled the smoke like a champ and my kitchen was 100% smoke free the entire time. My wife came down right as the beans dropped and commented on how the smoke immediately shot out the window. Here is a picture of the beans!
I will have some time Saturday night and Sunday morning to roast some more and will likely do a couple more roasts just to apply everything I have learned. I notice that the beans smell nothing like coffee, which I expected to be the case, as the smell comes with degassing, but it still throws me off a bit. Overall, this was a pretty incredible experience and exceeded my expectations. Really looking forward to future roasts.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 9:14pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
First, the roast looks great. You did very well. I think you will enjoy that coffee.
I think the temperatures in the manual are from the old thermocouple. The new one reds a little differently and so the manual needs updating. I will try to get on that this week.
To get better assistance from the masses here, give your roast times starting at when you drop the beans in and ignore hat the roaster says in that regard. So time starts at "0" when the beans are loaded.
The aroma of freshly roasted coffee in a jar can actually trigger a negative reaction in you because of the CO2 gases escaping which your body reacts negatively to.
Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012, 9:40pm Subject: Re: Hottop - Preparing for first roast - advice
frcn Said:
First, the roast looks great. You did very well. I think you will enjoy that coffee.
I think the temperatures in the manual are from the old thermocouple. The new one reds a little differently and so the manual needs updating. I will try to get on that this week.
To get better assistance from the masses here, give your roast times starting at when you drop the beans in and ignore hat the roaster says in that regard. So time starts at "0" when the beans are loaded.
The aroma of freshly roasted coffee in a jar can actually trigger a negative reaction in you because of the CO2 gases escaping which your body reacts negatively to.
The information about the timing helps a lot. As the roast got going, I realized I had no idea what to record. The only thing that I knew to write down was the timing of first and second, but that was with the time between the end of pre-heating and when I added the beans as well. I meant to use my iPhone's stopwatch to time the roast, but got caught up in the moment.
As far as timing for the drying phase, I used the manual as a guideline and turned the fan to 25% to help clear humidity. I was guessing a bit about the start of the drying phase. I have read that a grassy smell is a telltale sign that drying has begun and you should lower temp a bit and turn the fan on starting then. It was easy to tell when the drying was done and the heat was to be turned back up, as the beans shows an obvious color change. From that point on, I used the fan to control smoke flow and also to slow the temperature down. First crack was nice and loud, but second seemed really quiet and I'm not even sure if I actually heard it before that distinct crackle.
I have a notebook that I will be using to document each roast, but I am not exactly sure how to structure it. I will use my iPhone's stopwatch to start the time when I drop the beans and will try to use those times for different things, i.e. drying phase beginning, drying phase ending, first crack beginning/full force/end and second beginning... But what else should I be recording?
In my head, the general guidelines are:
Slow down drying time by decreasing temp to 60-70% and turning fan on lightly when grassy smell is noticed. I assume the fan can be turned on higher if necessary.
Heat back on full after drying completes and beans begin to tan.
As beans begin to darken and smoke, begin lowering heat (slowly). When first crack picks up the heat should already have been lowered to 50ish% and fan should be on to control the smoke and keep control of the roast.
*** After that, I am a bit hazy on good starting guidelines. I kept trying to control the temperature after first crack and kept it rising slowly (at least I think it moved slowly) and continued using the fan for smoke and air control. I had the rear filter partially lifted (about an inch) which kept the smoke moving out the rear exhaust instead of the bean chute. As I said, I struggled to hear second crack. There were several times where I thought I may have heard something, but I convinced myself it was just the beans tumbling. It wasn't until I heard what I can only describe as a crackle that I hit eject.
I can see that sight and sound will be very useful as I continue getting to know my machine. I was a bit lost when trying to use my nose. After dumping the beans, they seemed to emit a grassy aroma throughout the beginning of the roast - a very vegetal, earthy, grassy aroma. As they began smoking, I can only describe the smoke as slightly overdone popcorn. Not unpleasant, just what it reminded me of. I was also unsure of where I should have been sampling aromas from. I tried using the area above the bean chute, as the window fan was being a gym class hero and stealing all the smoke.
Looking back on my notes, they are pretty worthless as I forgot to write the temperature down for 1st crack and my second crack temp was iffy at best. Now that I have that first roast completed, I have created a roasting log/notes template to use during the roast so that I am getting all the necessary information. I am tempted to run a 2nd roast right to the beginning of second crack to really nail the temperatures at which everything happens according to the Hottop display. Ideally, I want to roast lighter for this coffee, as I like brighter and less roast flavors in my cup, but I feel like I need a better understanding of the roast cycle. There was a lot going on for me in that first roast that I definitely missed some things. So, I am thinking about a second roast into the very first click of second crack and another roast a bit after first ends. This may be overdoing it and I may need to slow down rather than doing three roasts in the first few days, but I feel it may be necessary to gain an initial understanding of the machine.
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