Snaxx Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Northeast Michigan, LP Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: KitchenAid A9 Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: I Roast2
Posted Wed Mar 28, 2012, 7:13pm Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
I posted my last two links while searching for info on Behmor roaster fires. I've seen many posts on CG referencing Behmor roaster fires, occurring either through lack of knowledge of how serious bean fires could be and how fast they can occur, or just plain inattention to the roast process, such as walking away for a short time to take care of other issues. I've seen a lot of references to Behmor roaster fires just in doing a general search for "Behmor coffee roaster fires" and also for "coffee roaster fires." For some reason this brand of home roaster seems to be one most likely to have issues with fire, either because of poor design with the chaff collector, poor design with the heating element style or location, or some other design flaw which promotes these incidents.
I've had an I-Roast 2 since 2008, and even though I've gone through over a couple hundred pounds of beans since that time, I've never had a bean fire with it. Except for my very first roast with it where the beans were close to charcoal, since I started with the recommended 10 minute pre-programmed roast cycle at 455/f all the way through, I've never had anything appear as heading toward a bean fire.
Since I couldn't find much on home roaster fires except for the Behmor, I'm now wondering if others out there with any other brand of home roaster, whether it is I-Roast, GeneCafe, Hottop, or any other brand of dedicated, small quantity, home roaster, has had a bean fire, or know of bean fire occurences. This should also include converted popcorn poppers, breadmakers, or other home-built machines which could roast up to about 2 pounds.
Prof Senior Member Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 632 Location: Seattle Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: PV Lusso, Enrico of Italy Grinder: Pharos 696, Zass Drip: Brazen, Aeropress Roaster: Behmor, TO/SC, Poppery I
Posted Wed Mar 28, 2012, 8:00pm Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
wsikes Said:
There are a lot of nice things that I can think of to say about Joe, but most have been said already. The thing I am wondering about is if Joe hears our cries for more heat control on the Behmor. Certainly we are listening to Joe... for example, I have not modded my Behmor even though I have been tempted to do so. But i am wondering if Joe really hears us when so many of us are asking for the same thing to be added to the Behmor? I have already bought one Behmor and would glady buy another if it offered a way to manually turn down the heat between 1c and 2c. Just saying...
Snaxx Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Northeast Michigan, LP Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: KitchenAid A9 Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: I Roast2
Posted Wed Mar 28, 2012, 9:21pm Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
wsikes Said:
Unless liability scares have detered him from bringing out new versions of the roaster...
That's why most companies make sure they are covered by Product Liability Insurance, as well as running under an LLC or other corporate structure, so if there are any issues of liability with a product that may arise, personal assets will be less at risk. Your company may go bankrupt because of liability lawsuits, but most claims against a company don't continue into personal assets unless the negligence can be attributed to a personal issue causing the claim. It's still not a good thing to build a successful company as Joe B has and have to spend corporate money to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
--------------------------------------------- (Disclaimer:) I'm not a lawyer, but I do have some knowledge of these issues. Additions or corrections are welcome if they clarify points or statements in this post.
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 4:48am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
Funny - the links on roasting safety are exactly the same steps I took, plus roasting outside (which actually addresses #5). Right down to TWO fire extinguishers. Some basics are hard to ignore.
FWIW. I also have a blanket nearby, but have considered getting an actual wool fire blanket. Belt and suspenders.
I am 99.98% certain that even if my coffee roaster explodes in a flaming ball of molten metal, my house will not suffer damage as a result. At worst, I'll be out two fire extinguishers and a coffee roaster.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 4:58am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
One thing I've noticed is that some of the Ethiopian or Yemen coffees, and Liberica as well, have very small beans. They are smaller than the drum mesh, and can "escape" the drum during the heating phase. Then, they sit in the bottom of the chaff tray with one side exposed to the elements and the exposed side will progress to charcoal in a matter of 2-3 minutes. Another minute results in excessive smoke and subsequent combustion IF you don't get them out. Getting them out during a roast cycle is tricky - so with a stock Behmor-1600, your ONLY option is to cool the roast, all the while gently smoking your beans while approximately 5 minutes shy of 1C.
Then, you can try to re-roast them, with possibly good or possibly not-good taste results, depending on your taste buds.
When using the Romheb-0016, and I'm doing African beans or notice size anomalies, I run the beans through a cool cycle first. One batch of Ethiopia Sidamo last November yielded 32g of beans sitting in the chaff tray from 300g starting.
(BTW, these are fun to use for sprouting coffee plants if you're bored. I've been unsuccessful getting a true plant, but if at first you don't succeed, keep on suckin' 'til ya do succeed...)
Nowadays, I just use my BMHG for peaberry, DP bean varieties (or hi-chaff beans), and noticeably small beans.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 5:38am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
Snaxx Said:
Since I couldn't find much on home roaster fires except for the Behmor, I'm now wondering if others out there with any other brand of home roaster, whether it is I-Roast, GeneCafe, Hottop, or any other brand of dedicated, small quantity, home roaster, has had a bean fire, or know of bean fire occurences. This should also include converted popcorn poppers, breadmakers, or other home-built machines which could roast up to about 2 pounds.
Since the new chaff tray the amount of posts about chaff fires seems small. I had a bean fire in the Behmor years ago which defied logic since it happened before 1st crack had finished. Early versions of the HT had posts about fires but later versions I have never seen a post about one nor have I had one with hundreds of roasts. The danger of a bad chaff fire in my commercial machine are the big fear, not keeping the exhaust clean and chaff collector clean can result in a 1000f+ fire and these are the types of fire you read about at commercial roasting operations. I did see a bean fire on utube in a under 60kg machine, almost seemed like they tried to make the fire by roasting to the end of 2nd crack where fire is imminent, they stuck a hose into the bean chute to suppress it.
infinus Senior Member Joined: 20 Jan 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Indiana, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Cheap POS Grinder: Baratza Preciso Vac Pot: Broken by the cats! Drip: Brazen, Technivorm Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 7:27am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
I've seen it said that Romheb's with variac control that can actually run at x% power during the last leg of the roast also have fewer incidents of chafe lighting up.
I'm sure that Joe will do his best to cater to the market that wants more control. Behmor is working hard on their release of Gort and I have high hopes once that's done that they will focus on the roaster again.
rarebear Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2009 Posts: 212 Location: Rex. Georgia USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Fiorenzata Bricoletta Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Yama 8C Roaster: Hot Top B2
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 7:02pm Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
Here are some pics of my firetrap mod.. Added a cutoff switch to heaters.. I uses a 20a 125vac toggle switch and Kapton Silver Wire (only thing I had handy) Heater Switch Heater Switch2
You can also see the two Temp Probes and two plugged holes that where to hot or not enough clearance from drum..
Taking the side off several times I have noticed a lot of chaff in the side cover.. I thought this was coming in from the back where the a fan is..
Turns out when I open the door for extra cooling the chaff is being sucked in from the front hinge opening.. The fan in back is causing a suction at this rectangular opening for the hinge and chaff is being sucked in..
This is not good as in time could cause a fire.. I'd pull the side cover off ever 50 roasts..
Posted Fri Mar 30, 2012, 5:11am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
Lookie there - no cut wires!
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Fri Mar 30, 2012, 7:03am Subject: Re: Electrical Engineering Question about Behmor Heaters
Fires are a direct result of people either leaving the roaster unattended or not paying attention. This occurs in all equipment and a Behmore is no exception. If one were to ask all those who've had fires, if they were honest, they'd admit they were at fault except in cases of the laws of physics being defied.
Regarding more control being safer, as offered by the resident genius, maybe he can explain how professional roasters with computer controls and other means of control often have bean ignitions.
Occam's razor, simplest answer is the correct one, people are the cause. If people are provided twenty buttons, ten dials or just one such as cool they are still the final control.
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