Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 7:43pm Subject: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
When I'm aiming for FC in my Behmor, I usually try to hit cool just before 2C. This is obviously tricky since I can't predict the future. Even when I've roasted the beans before, I sometimes miss. Also, I never really know if I was about to go into 2C vs. not being close so it could be City+ or FC and it's sometimes hard for me to judge (and thereby get a reference point). I use the Rosetta stone but often find I need to go longer than it would imply and it still leaves lots of wiggle room.
An easy and reproducible thing to do would be to hit cool at the very beginning of 2C. I assume this would usually cause me to coast through FC into FC+ but not beyond. Is that a good guess? If I open the door wide (and stink up the house) am I likely to get to about FC, or would it still be likely to go past that?
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 9:37pm Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
BarryR Said:
When I'm aiming for FC in my Behmor, I usually try to hit cool just before 2C. This is obviously tricky since I can't predict the future. Even when I've roasted the beans before, I sometimes miss. Also, I never really know if I was about to go into 2C vs. not being close so it could be City+ or FC and it's sometimes hard for me to judge (and thereby get a reference point). I use the Rosetta stone but often find I need to go longer than it would imply and it still leaves lots of wiggle room.
An easy and reproducible thing to do would be to hit cool at the very beginning of 2C. I assume this would usually cause me to coast through FC into FC+ but not beyond. Is that a good guess? If I open the door wide (and stink up the house) am I likely to get to about FC, or would it still be likely to go past that?
Actually, full city..in MOST cases is reached BEFORE 2nd crack begins..depending, of course on the particular varietal. I believe Tom at Sweet Maria's considers roasts that enter 2nd crack already on their way to Vienna!
My routine is to time my roasts from the end of 1st crack, and log the results. I'll wait for the first snap of 2nd crack, then cool down. This, of course gives me a full city++...I have a fan I use to cool the beans while still in the drum. Subsequent roasts of the same bean/same amount by weight, I keep watch of time, and stop the roast 30 to 45 seconds earlier than the time I logged previously. The roast will drift into full city, with no snaps of 2nd. I have the luxury of constant 121 voltage, so it's not so difficult to hit the roast. Smell is another clue, as is opening the door for a few seconds 1 minute past the end of 1st crack and peeking at the color. I use a VERY bright flashlight to aid visually.
Hope this helps.
EDIT...a couple more things for new Behmor users. Early on (I was a beta tester for this roaster) I discovered how truly wonderful the city+ roasts are. @ days rest, not grassy, but full of life. I encourage those roasting for some non espresso use, such as Hario/Chemex, drip/vac pot, etc to try some roasts stopped well short of 2nd crack, maybe 1 to 1.5 minutes after 1st is completed. An extra day of rest will allow the roast to develop. Also, for sweeter espresso, open the door a few seconds towards the end of 1st, which will aid in "stretching' the time between the end of 1st crack, and the onset of 2nd.
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 8:47am Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
My experience with the Behmor is that consistency in all things is how you develop repeatability in roast level. That means everything from weighing the batch to the stabillity of temperature in your bean storage and roasting area.
Regarding stretching first crack, I've come to be quite fond of P2 on the Behmor. Usually, when I've got a new bean, I'll do a 1/4, 1/2, and full pound roast on P1 all the way to second crack to note where the times are. Then I'll experiment with loads so that I hit FC just at the power drop in P2. I've been able to stretch first out by as much as a minute without baking the roast using this approach, which leads to a sweeter cup with more body.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 11:07am Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
GVDub Said:
My experience with the Behmor is that consistency in all things is how you develop repeatability in roast level. That means everything from weighing the batch to the stabillity of temperature in your bean storage and roasting area.
Regarding stretching first crack, I've come to be quite fond of P2 on the Behmor. Usually, when I've got a new bean, I'll do a 1/4, 1/2, and full pound roast on P1 all the way to second crack to note where the times are. Then I'll experiment with loads so that I hit FC just at the power drop in P2. I've been able to stretch first out by as much as a minute without baking the roast using this approach, which leads to a sweeter cup with more body.
YES, P2 can be awesome, BUT it is dependent on a good solid 120 v from the source. You have to listen well, as 1st crack is a wee bit more subdued, and 2nd (as you know) can sneak up on you, without the technique you employ.
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 12:32pm Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
As a further note, I've also taken to using the Roastmaster app on my iPad to track roasts (and bean inventory, too) and have found it a great tool for tracking where second is likely to be. If you've got an iOS device (iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch), I recommend it. Danny Hall, the programmer, uses a Behmor and the app has some nice Behmor-specific features.
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 6:11pm Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
Thanks for the above info. I use roasterthing (though I have roastmaster on my ipad). I found the former much easier to use and like the fact that I can copy bean info from the vendors website (in the case of SM actually can be done automatically). I also have my data file in dropbox which means I can access it from multiple PCs. I also use it to print coffee labels.
As I just looked at my roaster log, I see that (not surprisingly) many of my 12 oz FCs were stopped close to 3:10 after onset of 2C (showing the usefulness of the Rosetta stone).
Regarding P2 - I may have to experiment again. I usually don't want to change the roast size though to get it to "fit" the P2 curve as I use even multiples (3 X 10.7 oz roasts if I have 2lbs of a bean and 4 X 12 oz if I have 3 lbs.)
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 10:55pm Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
BarryR Said:
As I just looked at my roaster log, I see that (not surprisingly) many of my 12 oz FCs were stopped close to 3:10 after onset of 2C (showing the usefulness of the Rosetta stone).
Barry, did you mean 3:10 after FIRST crack? 3:10 after the start of 2nd would either cause a fire in the Behmor or thou have VERY low voltage. Briquets usually occur 45 seconds after the start of 2nd in MY 1600. Happened several years ago when I got distracted by my daughter.
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 8:37am Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
Barry, as I see it, the purpose of P2 is that I 'drop the notch' at the start of the 1CR in order to delay the onset of the 2CR.
I can't seem to do that, reliably. Mostly I use P3 and hope for the best.
I roast 10 oz. It yields 1/2 lb+ which is what works for me and my sons. But also, it allows 3 roasts out of a 2 lb bag of greens, more practical for testing than 1 lb.
On P3, my data show that I go to cool in a range of 2:15 to 2:45 after the onset of the 1CR.
The 2:45 min was for Sweet Maria's Monkey Blend and it took me 45 seconds into a 'diminishing' 2CR. The beans were dark with just a slight oily sheen. My son pulled some shots this morning (not adequately rested) and asked me to order 10 lbs more for him. (...he thinks it's great)
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 10:59am Subject: Re: Roast levels in Behmor - seeking some advice
JKalpin Said:
The beans were dark with just a slight oily sheen. My son pulled some shots this morning (not adequately rested) and asked me to order 10 lbs more for him. (...he thinks it's great)
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