OB Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2012 Posts: 26 Location: Pace, Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Rancillo Silvia V3, w/PID Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Black and Decker Roaster: Fresh roast +8
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 5:15am Subject: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
I've been roasting SM's coffee with my Fresh Roast +8 and taking it to just before 2nd crack at about 6 minutes. I think it's an FC ? I'm considering a Behmore 1600 and am wondering if the Behmore will bring out some flavors that I am missing. Some opinions from you experts would really help me. Thanks OB
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 9:20am Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
You might want to check out a topic I posted earlier. I've been using a Fresh Roast since I started. About 2 years ago, I replaced my Fresh Roast with a FR+8 that I'd gotten as a gift. That croaked earlier this year and so I'm looking for a new roaster. Since I'm coming from the same place you are, the discussion may be useful for you:
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 11:48am Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
I spent my first year with an FR+8 roaster. Over that time I added one thing after another. First a Kill-a-Watt meter to tell the changes in voltage and power, then a big 'dimmer control' (correctly called a Router Speed Reducer) and finally a thermocouple type K Reader/Recorder to see if I could do a repeatable profile. I certainly learned a lot about roasting and a lot about doing very small batches and carefully riding the controls with my eye on all the variables.
When I got a Behmor 1600 as a birthday present I had to get used to a new modus operandi. Here is a brief synopsis:
I weigh out and load 10 oz of beans (to get around 8.2 oz as roasted). I start the roast. Somewhere around 15 minutes I listen carefully for the first snap or two of the 1CR ...and start my timer. At 2:30 min +/- 15 sec I push the 'cool' button and wait for the cooling cycle to be completed. So my roast time will be around 18 or 19 minutes. The roast will be FC+ with perhaps 20 seconds of 2CR and only a slight sheen of oil (no spots) ...just the way I like it.
I have the Behmor on the stove with the vent-fan running on low. I open an adjacent window just a bit. There is a burnt toast aroma but never enough smoke to set off the smoke detector. Cleanup is easy but you gotta have a small vacuum for the chaff.
After the first 3 roasts with a new bean, I can get a consistently good roast 99 times out of 100.
I can't say enough good things about the Behmor and Joe Behm and his excellent support.
Based on my experience, you'll get better tasting coffee by NOT roasting a pound in the Behmor. I view the "one pound roaster" as a bit of a unicorn (to mangle the metaphor).
I started two years ago roasting 1 pound - which gave OK results. After I while, I reduced to 13 oz, then 12 oz and so on. Now my typical load is 8 to 10 ounces, depending on the profile I use.
For me, smaller roasts give better results. The reason is that the beans get roasted faster when using a smaller load.
This actually makes sense. Why else do most "home roasters" (HotTop, Gene Cafe, FreshRoast) limit you to such small roast size?
Life is too short to drink bad wine (or bad coffee)
Gregr Senior Member Joined: 6 Mar 2010 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia 90 Grinder: Moka Drip: CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Thu Jun 7, 2012, 9:15pm Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
In terms of taste/flavors theoretically yes-- you will see a pretty significant difference. I've never used an air roaster- started with a Behmor and use a Hottop now, but from everything I've read the Fresh Roast roasts the beans much faster than the Behmor and the results are generally very bright. With a Behmor you will see, or at least have the ability to achieve, a lot more body- the bottom end as opposed to the high/bright end of the flavor spectrum. You can also do darn good espresso roasts with the Behmor once you get the hang of manipulating things towards the end of the roast. I imagine similar manipulations are possible with a Fresh Roast that has some modifications but I wouldn't think you could achieve anything like a 3 minute stretch from the end of first crack to the beginning of second (a common target for a roast intended to made into espresso).
Posted Fri Jun 8, 2012, 8:23pm Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
I recently bought 14 lbs of Sweet Maria's 'Monkey Blend' for espresso for one of my sons. I have to admit that I have never had a latte as good as that made with Monkey Blend.
And it roasts so easily. It is very tolerant of voltage and ambient temperature variation. Whichever way I roast it, the result is good. And Joe Behm's Rosetta-Stone rule still works. For 10 oz I go to cool 2:30 min after the onset of the 1CR and the roast is perfect. Total time for my last roast was 20 min.
Well, with the OP's indulgence, I'd like to comment on your roast times. IMO, they are WAY off, especially for 10oz. With proper 120 voltage at the plug (this, like all roasters needs good voltage, at least 118-120) I get on average 1st crack noise at 10 minutes. I roast on average 13-14 oz, depending on the bean/blend.
My suggestion would the to check your voltage at the plug, make sure no appliances on the same circuit are active while you're roasting, and try this: Pre-heat your Behmor for 1:50, empty. Stop the roaster, quickly place the bean filled drum and chaff tray in, and restart the roaster. Try 1#/P1/A for hard beans like Guats, Colombian, etc. Maybe P2 for Sidama, Sumatra, etc. Open the door in the middle of 1st crack for a few seconds, and again 30 seconds after 1st has stopped. Attend the roaster toy stop it when you want.
If your beans are older, or if this still doesn't get you to 1st crack at 12 minutes or so (with 13oz load), then do the preheat WITH the bean filled drum and chaff try installed...this kick starts the yellowing.
With some varietals, when roasting in the P1 mode,I like to to open the door 4 seconds a minute or so before I anticipate 1st crack. This can really keep 1st from being too explosive.
In answer to the OP's question regarding comparison between his Fresh roast and the Behmor, a Behmor roast has more time to develop. A drum style conduction roast will have a different taste profile than an air roaster, but many have found the Behmor does a WONDERFUL job with city + roasts. Ideally, wait 36-48 hours when roasting city or city+. You can easily get full city and beyond, but ALWAYS attend your roaster.
Posted Fri Jun 8, 2012, 11:31pm Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
Out of the box with both roasters I will agree with you, however I believe roast profile is pretty much roast profile. In the early days before the Behmor was available many folks were hacking the air poppers and made to purpose fluid beds to get a "drum roast". Those who have been here for a long time will remember the wild and woolly days of temperature probes, Variacs, and extra long line cords applied to their fluid beds.
That seemed to pretty much go away with the arrival of the Behmor which put drum roasting in the reach of "us common folk".
Phil
Gregr Said:
In terms of taste/flavors theoretically yes-- you will see a pretty significant difference. I've never used an air roaster- started with a Behmor and use a Hottop now, but from everything I've read the Fresh Roast roasts the beans much faster than the Behmor and the results are generally very bright. With a Behmor you will see, or at least have the ability to achieve, a lot more body- the bottom end as opposed to the high/bright end of the flavor spectrum. You can also do darn good espresso roasts with the Behmor once you get the hang of manipulating things towards the end of the roast. I imagine similar manipulations are possible with a Fresh Roast that has some modifications but I wouldn't think you could achieve anything like a 3 minute stretch from the end of first crack to the beginning of second (a common target for a roast intended to made into espresso).
Posted Sat Jun 9, 2012, 7:56am Subject: Re: Advantage of a Behmor over a Fresh Roast + 8
IMAWriter Said:
Well, with the OP's indulgence, I'd like to comment on your roast times. IMO, they are WAY off, especially for 10oz. With proper 120 voltage at the plug (this, like all roasters needs good voltage, at least 118-120) I get on average 1st crack noise at 10 minutes. I roast on average 13-14 oz, depending on the bean/blend.
My suggestion would the to check your voltage at the plug, make sure no appliances on the same circuit are active while you're roasting, and try this: Pre-heat your Behmor for 1:50, empty. Stop the roaster, quickly place the bean filled drum and chaff tray in, and restart the roaster. Try 1#/P1/A for hard beans like Guats, Colombian, etc. Maybe P2 for Sidama, Sumatra, etc. Open the door in the middle of 1st crack for a few seconds, and again 30 seconds after 1st has stopped. Attend the roaster toy stop it when you want.
Again, with apologies to the OP (...not trying to shanghai this thread), you say that 20 min is too long for a 10 oz roast. My no-load voltage is usually 121V but in the summer it drops to 117V. In that case, P3 is wrong for Sumatra. P1 is better, with preheat if necessary. Or, with careful planning, P2, and drop the 'notch' into the middle of the 1CR.
Back to the OP's question. You might see from this exchange that while some might say the Behmor is inflexible, there are still work-arounds within the programs to allow for fine-tuning.
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