craiginNZ Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 5 Location: NZ Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2012, 5:16pm Subject: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
To give some context, for the last 3-4 years I've been roasting with a Freshroast machine. The little guy never gave up on me, and I got some fantastic coffee out of it. A trans-Pacific move (USA to New Zealand) meant leaving the FR behind and starting fresh.
So, I bought a Behmor 1600. I've had it two months and still haven't managed (after 12-15 roasts) to get coffee anywhere near as delicious as I did with the cheap little air roaster. It's not even consistently crappy: Sometimes it's unexpectedly burned tasting, sometimes it tastes way under-roasted.
My problem might sound crazy, but I just can't separate first crack from second crack. For instance, I just let a 1/2lb roast go for a long time on P5 because I thought I was fighting to push the roast even through first crack. A couple of glimpses of sparkling beans later and it's clear that it was well into 2nd. But I just couldn't tell. Even on P1 with 1/2 lb batches I'm getting to 11-11.30 and not feeling confident I've heard 1C.
On my old little roaster there was a very obvious first crack and an equally obvious second. I occasionally hear very slight 'pops' on the Behmor and I'm now wondering if those quiet, occasional little pops are the start first crack that I'm writing off as just mechanical noise or something (it doesn't seem like there are enough pops for this to be the case).
I know there are enough very happy Behmor users that this isn't a problem with the machine (unless I have a dud...and I *did* have a slight suspicion that I might have been sent a refurb) - can anyone suggest how I can correct my user error?
Prof Senior Member Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 632 Location: Seattle Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: PV Lusso, Enrico of Italy Grinder: Pharos 696, Zass Drip: Brazen, Aeropress Roaster: Behmor, TO/SC, Poppery I
Posted Sun Aug 12, 2012, 7:41am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
Could it be a voltage issure? I'm not sure since I don't know if 220V is what you have and if 220V can be as troublesome as 120V in regards to low voltage.
Perhaps the beans are old?
The Behmor is great for giving the user the ability to hear the sounds of the cracks. But perhaps the FR's higher heat gives more distinct pops and snaps.
Gregr Senior Member Joined: 6 Mar 2010 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia 90 Grinder: Moka Drip: CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Aug 12, 2012, 10:06am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
First suggestion is to use the appropriate profile for the beans you're roasting. I can't find Joe's original post but it's in the manual-- this is off the top of my head: P1 for high grown and or/hard beans like Centrals P2 for same once you've figured out when first crack will be and you want to stretch out the final stage of the roast P3,4 for low grown soft beans like SE Asians and espresso P5 for beans like Kona, JBM, etc.
I might have some of that not precisely correct but the point is P5 is hardly ever used and even P4 gets used rarely. Since you loved the beans from the FR I'd suggest you aim for faster roast times to highlight brightness (slower roasts highlight body more). P1 will do that for you. Here's a very basic way to get a good bright roast with minimal input-- roast your 1/2# on the 1#/P1 setting, preferably a high grown and or hard bean like Centrals, Columbians, etc. Listen for first crack and end the roast 30s or so after it ends. Read that manual- it'll save you a lot of headaches and wasted beans!
Posted Sun Aug 12, 2012, 11:09am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
I also went from a Fresh Roast to a Behmor. I much prefer the Behmor for it's capacity and it's more solid construction. I have been using my Behmor for 3 1/2 years. Yeah, it may be harder to hear the cracks. I roast outdoors all year I and often open the Behmor door between cracks for a few seconds at a time to both slow roast a bit - and to hear the cracks. Because I do this door opening, I have found it easier to just always use P1 profile. (I have used other profiles in the past, before settling on P1. I usually roast 12 oz. at the pound setting and add time, as well to get a Full City+ on most bean blends.
I think Craiginnz is entitled to a longer explanation:
Sometimes coffee has a very sparse 1CR. Sometimes the 1CR goes directly into the 2CR with hardly any 'rest' between them. But ALWAYS coffee will continue to roast (and crackle) for a couple of minutes after I go to cool. Therefore, it is impossible to predict when the 1CR will conclude and the 2CR will begin.
What Joe Behm says in his manual (...that he calls the 'Rosetta Stone Rule') is that you terminate the roast at X:XX minutes after the first crack or two of the 1CR. I just completed a roast of 10 oz of Sweet Maria's Monkey Blend as follows: I started a timer at the first pop or two of the 1CR and I went to cool exactly 2:30 minutes later. As I listened there was ...nothing... no 1CR, no 2CR, but in 15 seconds the 2CR began and continued for around 30 seconds. That's just what I wanted. The roast came out as FC+.
I used Monkey Blend as my example because, as a blend of several beans, I expected there to be little or no silent period between the two kinds of cracks.
After I go to 'cool' the batch continues to roast because the cooling rate is slow. Fancier (read ...more expensive) roasters dump into a tray with much faster cooling.
Using the Rosetta-Stone rule, I have never had an 'off' roast.
Posted Mon Aug 13, 2012, 9:36am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
I would suggest devoting a batch to one pedal-to-the-floor roast. That is, P1. If you don't get a defined, obvious first crack using P1, there's technical problem (perhaps excessive voltage drop). I think having a Kill-a-watt inline is a great idea. Watching it during the roast can tell you if you're getting enough power to the elements. If you seem to be getting at least 116V (though you'd love to see more) and still don't get a hard and fast first crack, contact Joe and ask for support. The Behmor with proper power is capable of burning the crap out of some coffee in no time.
P5 is a very, very gentle profile and can lead to a subtle first crack. If you're using dense beans, stick with P1. The manual has reasonable guidance for which profiles are best for which regions, but there are plenty of exceptions to the rule.
rarebear Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2009 Posts: 212 Location: Rex. Georgia USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Fiorenzata Bricoletta Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Yama 8C Roaster: Hot Top B2
Posted Thu Aug 16, 2012, 1:14am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
I had best luck with 8oz P1 C with a 1:30 per heat with out cage.. Add cage and beans and restart.. Roast 2:10 at least after 1C
Some beans snap very load some hardly at all.. 1C most times loud spaced out snaps 2C faster low volume snaps like huge bowel of rice krispies vs pop corn pops for C1
Posted Thu Aug 16, 2012, 5:37am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
craiginNZ Said:
To give some context, for the last 3-4 years I've been roasting with a Freshroast machine. The little guy never gave up on me, and I got some fantastic coffee out of it. A trans-Pacific move (USA to New Zealand) meant leaving the FR behind and starting fresh.
So, I bought a Behmor 1600. I've had it two months and still haven't managed (after 12-15 roasts) to get coffee anywhere near as delicious as I did with the cheap little air roaster. It's not even consistently crappy: Sometimes it's unexpectedly burned tasting, sometimes it tastes way under-roasted.
My problem might sound crazy, but I just can't separate first crack from second crack. For instance, I just let a 1/2lb roast go for a long time on P5 because I thought I was fighting to push the roast even through first crack. A couple of glimpses of sparkling beans later and it's clear that it was well into 2nd. But I just couldn't tell. Even on P1 with 1/2 lb batches I'm getting to 11-11.30 and not feeling confident I've heard 1C.
On my old little roaster there was a very obvious first crack and an equally obvious second. I occasionally hear very slight 'pops' on the Behmor and I'm now wondering if those quiet, occasional little pops are the start first crack that I'm writing off as just mechanical noise or something (it doesn't seem like there are enough pops for this to be the case).
I know there are enough very happy Behmor users that this isn't a problem with the machine (unless I have a dud...and I *did* have a slight suspicion that I might have been sent a refurb) - can anyone suggest how I can correct my user error?
craiginNZ Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 5 Location: NZ Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Aug 17, 2012, 5:03am Subject: Re: Behmor roast confusion: Any guidance?
I appreciate the helpful suggestions.
I also understand the tendency to tell folks to RTFM - though I promise you, my struggles here are not due to a lack of reading!
I measured the voltage at the outlet as being 237-238V, so I'd be surprised if that's the issue. Given the small market for home roasters in NZ, I'm more inclined to think the beans could be stale.
Still, I followed some of the tips here - e.g., started measuring from the first sound that could conceivably be 1C (even though I wouldn't have recognized it as such - and therein lies the problem). The roasts haven't really had long enough to rest for me to be sure of how they've turned out, but I'm trying the P1 profile again and doing just 1/4lb batches using the "Rosetta Stone". Hopefully I'll find some improvement.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 