JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Sat Oct 13, 2012, 7:46pm Subject: New to roasting and I've got questions
Living rurally, fresh beans aren't possible. I can get them mailed in on day 4-6 post roast. Plus, i'm really interested in getting to know beans a lot better. This is what brought me to wanting to roast. I figured I would go reasonable and start with the Popcorn Popper to see if I really do enjoy this as a hobby. Later I may very well look at other roasting equipment, but for now, I am fascinated with the Popper!
So I got a two for one sale: two Toastess TCP713 for 30$. Happy camper so far. I live in the mountains of Golden BC. it's fall, it's getting cool like -2 to 5 C. I roast in the garage. I ordered beans from Sweet Maria's, even with the high shipping coast it is equivalent to buying in canada cost wise, and I love the information they have to offer. If there is a better deal in canada for quality beans, please let me know.
I am learning about my power supply. my first roast was by the house on one outlet on a warm day. everything functioned as the directions say. Now in the garage I am a hundred feet from the power supply, so probably lower voltage. Then I discovered that other things plugged into the same outlet would take power away from the popper. The result of that was longer roast time (10-12 mins), and a lot less cracking (once there were only two cracks exactly).
Then I used a box and pumped in some ambient heat. Dedicated plug for the popper so full power and next thing you know I had great cracking and a vienna roast (I believe) on my hands. So I improved the visibility in the box and got what I believe was a full city roast.
so the questions:
If there is no popping is that a Stalled roast process? if so, what is the consequence? I have yet to taste it.
What is the distinction between the cracks? 1st crack goes on for 1.5 to 2 mins? Is there an end to 1st crack? does it blend into 2nd Crack and if so, how do you know?
I have also attached a photo below. I don't know if it is possible to determine from a photo but I believe it ranges from Vienna to FC+ to FC. or is each one a step up from that? the Vienna has a bit of oil on the beans (not intended), is that vienna or when oil comes out is it then french?
So.... I got questions. If someone has patience for me it would be appreciated.
Posted Sun Oct 14, 2012, 8:10am Subject: Re: New to roasting and I've got questions
I can't comment on the stalled roast issue. I haven't had one.
It's possible for first and second cracks to run together. With some beans, you don't always get much of a 1st crack. I think the first crack is caused by cell walls rupturing as their water is turned to steam. It sound to me like the crackling of wood in a fire only not as loud. Second crack sounds more like the sound Rice Crispies make in milk. It's a quieter and faster crack. There's a distinct difference in the smell of the beans which may also help. During first crack, you may get a more grainy smell. Ideally you would like to stretch the roast between first and second crack to 3-5 minutes. That's assuming you are going all the way to second crack. Full City is just a little before 2nd starts so you have to anticipate. That's where learning the smells really helps.
As for the photo, the first looks like a Viennese roast to me, could be French. The other two look similar to me in the picture. You can get some oil from Viennese. I don't really worry about exact levels anymore. I just worry about whether I like the resulting brew.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Sun Oct 14, 2012, 5:38pm Subject: Re: New to roasting and I've got questions
Thanks for the comments Jim.
I guess roasting is about picking up on those distinctions of all the senses. for now I can distinguish colour and appearance of the bean. distinguishing the cracks is difficult as I am trying to stick to under second crack. although on the vienna one, there may have been continuous cracking and I did not pick up on the difference. the beans were still cracking in the slightly in the colander. Smell I can't distinguish yet but will now pay attention to differences. for now it constantly smells grainy/coffeish to me...
With a popper I have little control, although I have found some funny ways to gain some almost akin to doing a dance. how do you stretch the time between 1st and 2nd crack? With proper equipment is that done with temperature?
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 6:20am Subject: Re: New to roasting and I've got questions
Stretching the time between 'cracks', I believe is easier with fluid-bed roasters than with drum roasters. Because in the case of fluid-bed roasters, the bean mass temperature can be lowered very quickly by doing two or three things: 1) Increase air flow to the roasting chamber. 2) Dial down the heat 3) Stop recycling roasting chamber air.
However, care must be taken to keep the BMT advancing so the roast doesn't stall.
Yesterday's one-pound roast of Columbian Condor Linares went like this: 1) Drying - 4 minutes at 1000 watts + 20% recycled hot air. 2) ramp to first crack - 4 minutes at 1305 watts + 40% recycled hot air. 3) Finish - 3 minutes at 1130 watts + 20% recycled hot air.
I usually do not increase the air flow to stretch the first crack. With my roaster, 'dumping' the hot air from the 'mixing box' and lowering the heating element wattage works best. But I know other fluid-bed roasters who use the 'blower' control to lower the BMT.
I accidentally got a 3+ min interim time a couple of roasts ago with an electric drum roaster. A "belief" is not very scientific and "easier" is a relative term that does not seem terribly useful as applied here since it is easy to control a roast in a drum roaster if you know what you are doing and have learned how to control the roaster, which, to be fair, can be said of virtually any coffee roasting appliance.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 9:36pm Subject: Re: New to roasting and I've got questions
What needs to be done on the Behemore to extend between 1st and 2nd crack? and what is the consequence of a "stalled" roast? Guess I'll find out tomorrow when I use the roast that had few cracks at all.
MoJoeCoffeeRoaster Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Vegas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:47pm Subject: Re: New to roasting and I've got questions
A stalled roast gets a baked flavor instead of a roasted flavor. Now what does that mean, i cant be sure, i am almost tempted to stall a roast on purpose to try it.
As for second crack it is faster once it gets rolling than rolling first crack. A tell tale sign is a big increase in grey bitter burnt smelling smoke especialy compared to the toasty and grassy smells you get earlier in the roast. When the smoke comes you are on the verge of second crack, a full city or full city + roast.
Also 1st crack sounds a little like popcorn popping where 2nd sound just like a fire cracking to me.
Check out sweet marias library section, they have recorded cracking sounds and a section on using you senses to tell the where you are at in the roast.
Also look at you beans after the roast, if you see little divot chunks busted off the beans you were in 2nd crack. Color is not the most reliable way to tell.
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