Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Home Roasting Talk
Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
Espresso Makers
Premium stovetop espresso makers, electric moka pots, machines & accessories.
www.espressozone.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Time vs....  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
kozureokami
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 6
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Aug 16, 2013, 6:05am
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

germantownrob Said:

Sometimes us Geeks have a hard time answering simple questions, lol.

Very fast roast are very bright and very thin.
Fast roasts are bright with less body and sweatiness.
Long roasts have more body and sweatiness.
Very long roasts are flat and boring.

Posted August 15, 2013 link

First of all, thanks to everyone for their very helpful replies, including Netphilosopher whose original pronouncement occasioned a particularly useful meditation session this morning.  :-)

Anyway, it's becoming very clear that for ignorant years I have been roasting my beans WAY WAY too fast.  This is partially a function of the equipment I'm using.  For reasons of cost, I've been using Fresh Roast SR500.  Although the beans simply won't roast in the time they ought to according to instructions, it is still a much shorter period than anything all of you have been discussing.   I now also have a possible explanation for why my stove top skillet roasts--using more or less constant flipping of the beans as in a stir fry--always taste so much better than the Fresh Roast roasts.  They take about 10-15 minutes compared to the 6.5-7.5 minutes needed for the Fresh Roast.

I have tried messing with the temperature and air on the machine--generally keeping the air up high for the first minute or two to dry the beans a bit so they will circulate better, then lowering the air flow to raise the heat so the damn thing will roast within the amount of time it's designed to work--but my coffee still doesn't taste all that great.  (I'm using Columbia Popoyan from Coffee Bean Corral.)  Generally, I like a full-city roast (stopped a few moments before second crack) that is balanced between body and brightness, maybe with a tad emphasis on the body.

Can anyone who has had experience with this roaster give me any tips for how to improve my results (apart from getting rid of the roaster and buying a better one?)

Thanks again to everyone.
k.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,326
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Aug 16, 2013, 6:07am
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

kozureokami Said:

This is an interesting reply, DavecUK, thank you.  I will meditate on this koan and see if satori occurs.  In the meantime, is there anyone out there more knowledgeable than I who is willing to address this question in a straightforward manner?

Thanks,
k.

Posted August 14, 2013 link

It's funny really that you simply have no concept of how complex a question you have asked and I gave you the simplest reply. Unfortunately we don't all come equipped with a USB 3.0 Interface in our skulls, if we did then you could buy a very large download of data and get all the knowledge instantly. It's fair to say that there is far too much knowledge to impart by a simple forum post and then there's the experience. However, look for frogs in good roasts and try and remember what you did (exactly) and when you see toads (wrinkled nasty looking), then really try and remember what you did, so that you can change one or more of the many things you would have done wrong.

In addition keep detailed roast logs, for many years for all the different types of coffees and batches you have roasted, understand how they are grown, what height, what country, what varietal, what processing....then and only then will any answers make real sense, however, by then, you won't need to ask the questions. Until then, only very simple guidlines will help you on the journey you must take yourself.

  1. keep a very good roast log, most important note finished appearance (look for "pop offs", sign of too fast a ramp up, or scorching, then adjust to minimise, avoid)
  2. learn a bit about coffee growing processing etc..
  3. taste the coffee roasted all ways, espresso, americano, long drink, carafe (keep notes)
  4. experiment with the roaster on time, temp, batch size and rate of temp change
  5. Don't get the coffee too hot in the roaster (but make sure it gets hot enough)
  6. While roasting listen, look and smell ...just one reason why e.g.you will then understand the difference between a bad, good 1st crack and it's effect on taste
  7. Try your coffee 4 weeks post roast

Above is everything you need to know about roasting for the next few years, after which I suspect, you will have the answers you need.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Netphilosopher
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Aug 16, 2013, 9:57am
Subject: .
 

.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Netphilosopher
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:07am
Subject: .
 

.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
zane9
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Jul 2009
Posts: 37
Location: Hamilton
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 9:20am
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

kozureokami Said:

...Can anyone who has had experience with this roaster give me any tips for how to improve my results (apart from getting rid of the roaster and buying a better one?)

Thanks again to everyone.
k.

Posted August 16, 2013 link

I have been using the SR500 for some time. I have experimented with combinations of temperature/fan speed. Lately I have been satisfied with results, based on:

setting the timer to the maximum: 9.9
setting the fan speed to maximum; temperature set to low: first 2 minutes
lowering the fan speed to the 1:00 o'clock position; temperature set to high: next 5 minutes
lowering the temperature to medium: next 2.5 minutes
pushing the 'cool" button: .5 minutes before time expires (and cooling cycle begins)

In the first 2 minutes, the beans circulate well, change colour to that toasty/orange, and aren't heating too quickly.

I hit first crack around 4.5 minutes.

By adjusting temperatures, the properly expanded beans are evenly roasted to the profile I like.

Depending on the beans (country of origin; dryness level, etc, etc,) I will adjust the above settings through the course of some test batches.

I really like the SR500. My only complaint is the amount of beans that can be roasted; I would like a roasting cup at twice the capacity.

Hope this helps.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

dana_leighton Said:

I assume typing autocorrect had its way with the word sweetness. If so then I agree - but I've never gotten a roast to taste sweaty. :)

Posted August 15, 2013 link

Assume all you want, I think it might have been gremlins or bourbon though, lol.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Snaxx
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 169
Location: Northeast Michigan, LP
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity burr
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Roaster: I Roast2
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Totally agree on the roasting log.  You'll roast with a log, then wish you had another piece of information... like:

I didn't really start to understand until I started measuring temperature.  It ain't easy for many of the roasting machines out there, but it ain't impossible, either. So I started measuring temperature throughout the roast.  Then, I realized that some beans have different reaction to the same heating profile, so I started measuring green coffee density.... and so on...

Posted August 16, 2013 link

Here's another parameter to consider when you're selecting details to record in your roasting log.  Many home roasters have invested in a Kill-A-Watt meter to monitor volts and amps during roasts to try to figure out deficiencies when their roasters don't produce good expected results.  I've done a large number of roasts in my I-roast with the K-A-W set to monitor actual power used for the roast.  That's monitored with the far right button and it says KWH.  My power stays fairly consistent so I don't often have voltage drops that might require roast times to be extended greatly.  The thing I've noticed with monitoring this reading is, an 8 ounce roast will be at .2 KWH to bring a roast with the majority of bean varieties I prefer to a Full City roast level.  My first I-roast usually completes a roast to begin cooling at 8:15, sometimes no more than 8:30, and always by visual cues to determine stop time since it is so impossible to hear cracks with this thing.  My second I-Roast which I bought used for a spare for when my first one died is now in service while my original I-Roast waits for me to replace a worn motor bearing.  That replacement roaster has a whole different roast pattern even though I set it up the same for temp and time programs.  Completing a roast in the replacement may take another minute or so to get to the same roast level by sight, but the KWH used gets to the same point of .2 KWH when the roast is complete.

With this factor of .2 KWH required to roast 8 ounces to a Full City in my I-Roast, I'm wondering how this compares to similar amounts in a Behmor, FreshRoast, or other brand electric roasters that others are using to roast to a Full City, or what the KWH comparisons between different bean quantities are in a roaster like the Behmor which can vary between a few ounces to a full pound.

Ken
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Netphilosopher
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Aug 20, 2013, 4:37am
Subject: .
 

.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Snaxx
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 169
Location: Northeast Michigan, LP
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity burr
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Roaster: I Roast2
Posted Tue Aug 20, 2013, 7:34am
Subject: Re: Time vs. Temperature in Roasting
 

Netphilosopher Said:

For a given setup, probably works as a guideline.  I have a hard time seeing that the physical math would translate to other setups, though.  .2kWh IN to an FR500 is different heat than .2kWh going into a Behmor or .2kWh going into an i-roast for example.

The other issue is that .2kWh is the unit for energy, not power - but it's common to mix these units up, and even the manufacturer of the K-A-W (or representatives of them) don't seem to understand energy and power.  If they really meant 200Watt-hours, (720,000 Watt-seconds), then in 8 minutes you'd have put in only 26.6 watts (which obviously doesn't make sense).

What they probably mean is the power setting is .2kW or 200 Watts.  Your typical 120V outlet can power about 1600-1800 watts at a constant load, but the power setting required to heat coffee beans is completely dependent on the bean load and heat transfer characteristics of the roasting apparatus.

Posted August 20, 2013 link

Absolutely!  It is only a guideline since the efficiency will vary between roaster types.  That's why I put out the question to others with Behmor, Freshroast, whatever, even a DB/HG setup to monitor their roasting using this parameter to see and compare what it takes to get a similar amount to a similar roast level to determine efficiencies.  As an example using water, it will take so many BTUs to raise a known quantity so many degrees, but there are variations between gas and electric heat sources and determining the cost of using either a gas or electric stove may be a factor in choosing one or the other for a purchase.  Somewhere, that info has already been worked out so you don't have to invent the wheel to come up with an answer, but nowhere have I seen anything similar with coffee roasting.  I'm not asking to compare gas with electric roasters, only electric.

       "then in 8 minutes you'd have put in only 26.6 watts"  

No, .2 KWH is energy used to do the roast which is 200 watts of power, not 26.6 watts.  I don't understand how you calculated that.

Actually, my roaster is rated for 1500 watts.  If you divide 1500 by 200, it works out to 7.5 (minutes) so there is a bit of fudge factor in what the K-A-W is telling you, but it would still be in the ballpark.  Of course what the label is telling you may not be accurate either.

Ken
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Netphilosopher
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Aug 20, 2013, 2:57pm
Subject: .
 

.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Time vs....  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Italian Coffee
Italian coffee beans, grinds and pods from Kimbo, LavAzza, Miscela d'Oro & Bristot. Qty. discounts!
www.espressozone.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.361310958862)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+