Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 10:30am Subject: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
All,
Sorry to broach a topic that is has been discusssed ad nauseum but I'm stumped.
I have been using a PID modified Silvia and Solis Maestro for a couple of years with adequate, albeit slightly inconsistent, results. I recently upgraded to a Macap M4 grinder from Chris. I'm now getting consistently sour shots.
With the Maestro, i would just overfill the double LM basket, level the top, lightly tamp (maybe 5-10 lbs), and go. pretty good results.
Now with my new Macap, I'm trying to get more precise. I got a small food scale to be more exact on the amount of beans. I'm using a bathroom scale to try for 30 lbs of tamp. i'm using 17 grams at the moment.
i get a really slow pour for about 10 seconds, too slow, I think. seems the right color at that point.
then it transforms quickly to a blond gusher. not completely blond but it does seem too blond.
if i adjust the grind to be the next level finer or try to add more coffee or try to tamp harder, then i choke my Silvia.
if i adjust the grind to be the next level coarser or try to add less coffee or try to tamp softer, then i get an immediate blond gusher.
i've tried various methods of tamping following advice here but nothing seems to help.
Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 10:46am Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
Hmmm. Don't have any direct experience with Silvia or Macap but if you can't adjust the grind, try adjusting the dose and see what happens. Try 18g, then 19g. You may have to dose some into the pf, knock it or tap it onto the dosing forks or counter, then add the rest. I know you said for 10seconds you get a slow pour, how long does it take from the time you hit the brewswitch to the time you get espresso out of the pf?
Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 10:47am Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
Robert,
This one is a head scratcher. I don't have a Silvia, but maybe I can help nonetheless.
You did not mention what type of beans you are using, and how fresh they are. Besides a grounds distribution problem inside the basket, the other explanation I can think of is the beans.
My theory is that your shots were toward the bitter side with the Solis grinder. I speculate that based on people saying the Solis is not ideal for espresso, and has some fines in the grind.
Now, with a quality grinder, your particle consistency has improved to the point of the beans themselves being a problem.
Just a wild guess.
Please let us know what beans you are using.
Good luck,
Jeremy
"I've appeared before every court in the state. Often as a lawyer." - Lionel Hutz, Esq.
I realized after I posted that i didn't mention beans. i use fresh Black Cat beans, from 3 days to 14 days old. same results no matter the age. thx for the reply.
Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 11:47am Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
When are you starting the timer? 10 seconds, plus an initial dwell time of 6-8 seconds after hitting the switch, is not that far out of the ballpark. 10 seconds post-hitting the switch is definitely a problem, though.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 12:30pm Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
ChicagoSandy Said:
When are you starting the timer? 10 seconds, plus an initial dwell time of 6-8 seconds after hitting the switch, is not that far out of the ballpark. 10 seconds post-hitting the switch is definitely a problem, though.
the latter: about 10 seconds after hitting the switch. probably 3-4 seconds of no liquid (it sounds like the pressure is building in the machine), about 6-7 seconds of a slow, slow dark pour, then the blond gush comes.
Posted Wed Jul 6, 2005, 1:07pm Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
Geez, I'm stumped. High-quality beans, 14 days is probably over the hill but you say you have the same problem when they're really fresh. Maybe it's the thermostat or pressurestat, but we're getting into übergeek territory here--perhaps Jim S. can weigh in, as he knows the innards of various machines and may have a greater understanding of the mechanics of the problem. Have you tried a hotter temp by hitting the steam switch for a minute and then turning it off just before you lock and load? Sounds counterintuitive for a darker roast like Black Cat (with my Silvia, it is perfect for Red Line or Malabar Gold at FC+), but perhaps the blondness and sourness could be too low a temp.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
Maybe we should have you define what you mean by choking the machine if you grind finer.
Sandy, please step in and slap me if I'm wrong, but the flow on a Silvia, just like any other machine, should start 6-8 seconds after hitting the switch. If you are getting flow at 3-4 seconds, you are definitely grinding too coarse, or tamping too light, or underdosing, or any combination of the above.
Grind a little finer. Hit the switch. There should be no flow for 6-8 seconds. This is normal; it is not choking. Then, shoot for approx 60ml espresso from your double basket in a total of 30sec after you have hit the switch. (6-8 secs of no flow, then 22-24 sec of flow to achieve 60ml).
Also, how are you distributing the grounds in the basket before tamping?
Jeremy
"I've appeared before every court in the state. Often as a lawyer." - Lionel Hutz, Esq.
Have you done the pressure modification? It's a longshot, but maybe the pressure is unusually high, which results in finicky extractions and fast transitions from dark to blond.
Posted Fri Jul 8, 2005, 5:13am Subject: Re: Sour pour with Silvia/Macap?
Thx for everyone's input on this issue. i think i've nailed it. Dan made a comment over on HB:
I'm betting on ..... really bad side-channeling (canted tamp, lost adhesion due to rapping, hard lock-in, or otherwise disturbing the puck).
it turns that i was being casual about rapping the PF from the side with my tamper. i've done it instinctively to knock the ground coffee from the side of the PF. but i had apparently rapping the PF after my last tamp, thus losing the adhesion of the puck. in the past, i was tamping with much less pressure, resulting in a softer puck that was less prone to separately from the PF.
The lesson here, at least for me, is that one must ensure that the water has no place to go other through the puck. otherwise, blond & sour! thx again!
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