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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Vacpot and/or...  
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aurelio
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aurelio
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 859
Location: Michigan, USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Astra(CT)/Antigua
Vac Pot: Santos/FP/AP
Drip: Presto-SG/Krups(pourover)
Roaster: Alp
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 7:51am
Subject: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

Those of you who own a Santos and/or vacpot...

Do you add the grinds at the beginning of the brew process or do you add them once the water has made its way into the upper chamber?

I've owned a vacpot for a couple of years now, and I never really liked the flavor it produced, compared to FP or manual drip.  But recently, someone here suggested dumping the grinds in after the water has risen into the upper chamber.  I tried this and the resulting brew was much more flavorful.  Is this an "insider tip" because the owner's manual states to put the grinds into the chamber at the beginning of the brew process.  But, when I think about this, it dawned on me that as the water slowly rises into the upper chamber and mixes with the grinds, is it really at the proper temp?  Perhaps not, and maybe it was resulting in a sour brew because of it?  Or maybe it is the proper temp but steeping way too long?  I suspect that when I dump the grinds in at the end and stir, the temp of the water is correct and that's why it tastes better.  After I dump the grinds into the upper chamber with the water simmering, I stir it, let it sit over the heat for about a minute and then slide it off the burner.  The brew completes by draining into the bottom chamber and voila!  I have a killer cup.

Can anyone comment on this?  I wonder how many of us can benefit from a "How-to" for vaccum pot brewing detailing the "insider tips"?

Aurelio

 
"I am the great Cornholio!"  -- an overcaffeinated Beavis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My favorite CG posts...
Ristretto & blonding:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518
FP brewing tips:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186
Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393
Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595
Inside the mind of a CG:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
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easy_henry
Senior Member
easy_henry
Joined: 4 Oct 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Australia (Melbourne) & Hong Kong
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: CKX, Mini Gaggia, Arrarex...
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, EM0480,...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Hario 3-cups...
Drip: Cup-size stanless...
Roaster: popper, hotpan
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 8:50am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

I normally put my grinds after water has gone north and just before it bubbles. I remember that there were a few posts on this before or at least similar topics, but I couldn't find them...

Anyway, the temperature of water could varys depending on when you put the top part in and how long it takes for the water to travel up.

 
go easy, ride safe and keep brewing,
henry

LMWDP #093
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CraigA
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CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,242
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 9:19am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

Hi Aurelio, with over 3,400 plus posts I've covered this & posted the results of my thermocouple testing that proves it. I add grinds after all the water is up North as it's too cold when the water 1st hits the coffee (producing sour coffee), & my thermocouple testing has proven this out IMO & for me anyway..














.

 
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aurelio
Senior Member
aurelio
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 859
Location: Michigan, USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Astra(CT)/Antigua
Vac Pot: Santos/FP/AP
Drip: Presto-SG/Krups(pourover)
Roaster: Alp
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 9:42am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

Thanks guys!  So, how long do you let the grinds steep, and do you leave the pot over the heat for the entire steep time?  Just curious, as now I'm geeked that my vacpot results are improving!

Aurelio

EDIT:  Just fyi, I did do a search prior to posting (and probably slowed everybody down), but what I discovered is that most people pre-heat the water and add the coffee at the beginning.  I guess this is the "same difference" as waiting for the water to come to temp and adding the coffee then.

 
"I am the great Cornholio!"  -- an overcaffeinated Beavis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My favorite CG posts...
Ristretto & blonding:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518
FP brewing tips:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186
Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393
Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595
Inside the mind of a CG:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,242
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 10:34am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

aurelio Said:

Thanks guys!  So, how long do you let the grinds steep, and do you leave the pot over the heat for the entire steep time?  Just curious, as now I'm geeked that my vacpot results are improving!
Aurelio

Posted November 1, 2005 link

If you ask 10 people, I think you're going to get 10 different/varing answers based on peoples preference & personal taste., which as we all know is very subjective. On my Bodum Santos, Yama, I do a 4 - 4 minute total brew/infusion time., including the pull down time of approximately 40 - 50 seconds.

EDIT:  Just fyi, I did do a search prior to posting (and probably slowed everybody down), but what I discovered is that most people pre-heat the water and add the coffee at the beginning.  I guess this is the "same difference" as waiting for the water to come to temp and adding the coffee then.

No, not the same as adding the coffee after all the water is up North & the brew temp is at 200F. The other way I measured contact temps at the coffee/water interface at around 180 - 185F, way too cool  & will produce sour coffee. Too hot & it'll be bitter.

The proper brewing temperature according to the SCAA is 195F - 205F.
I get excellent results all the time with my various vacpots! {:-D

 
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http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

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mmm_crema
Senior Member
mmm_crema
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 361
Location: Mayne, B.C.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000
Grinder: Compak K3 touch
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Gas-wok-heat gun 1 lb...
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 10:37am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

I preheat the water. As for the brew time, I go for about 1:15 - 1:30 max.

As I have said before in vac-pot related threads, they make the best coffee.

Emil
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aurelio
Senior Member
aurelio
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 859
Location: Michigan, USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Astra(CT)/Antigua
Vac Pot: Santos/FP/AP
Drip: Presto-SG/Krups(pourover)
Roaster: Alp
Posted Tue Nov 1, 2005, 11:01am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

CraigA Said:

No, not the same as adding the coffee after all the water is up North & the brew temp is at 200F. The other way I measured contact temps at the coffee/water interface at around 180 - 185F, way too cool  & will produce sour coffee. Too hot & it'll be bitter.

The proper brewing temperature according to the SCAA is 195F - 205F.
I get excellent results all the time with my various vacpots! {:-D

Posted November 1, 2005 link

Ah, I understand.  So even if the water is pre-heated, it is not hot enough when it travels north.  Okay, so I'll continue with my process of adding the grinds when all the water's up north, as that has yielded the best flavor for me.  My steep time is closer, though, to mmm_crema's...maybe 2 min's total, including the travel southward.  Like you said, very subjective.

But this helps, thanks!

 
"I am the great Cornholio!"  -- an overcaffeinated Beavis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My favorite CG posts...
Ristretto & blonding:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518
FP brewing tips:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186
Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393
Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595
Inside the mind of a CG:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2005, 11:05am
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

aurelio Said:

Those of you who own a Santos and/or vacpot...

Do you add the grinds at the beginning of the brew process or do you add them once the water has made its way into the upper chamber?

Posted November 1, 2005 link

I had been dumping them in up front, just following old habits learned at a coffee shop where i worked years ago, until you brought this up

aurelio Said:

But, when I think about this, it dawned on me that as the water slowly rises into the upper chamber and mixes with the grinds, is it really at the proper temp?  Perhaps not, and maybe it was resulting in a sour brew because of it?  Or maybe it is the proper temp but steeping way too long?

Posted November 1, 2005 link

So i set up the Cory 6 cup vac pot with near boiling water, placed on an electric solid burner, room temp about 73f, and waited with thermocoupler ready.

When the water went north to the point of filling the upper bell around half the temp was 174f.

Bell completely full temp = 178f.

3 minutes later, with the burner on its highest setting, water had reached an acceptable brew temp of 194f.

What had been happening in my case was i depending on the visual clue of the water dancing in the bell but water boils at a much lower temp in a vaccum.


aurelio Said:

I suspect that when I dump the grinds in at the end and stir, the temp of the water is correct and that's why it tastes better.  After I dump the grinds into the upper chamber with the water simmering, I stir it, let it sit over the heat for about a minute and then slide it off the burner.  The brew completes by draining into the bottom chamber and voila!  I have a killer cup.

Can anyone comment on this?  I wonder how many of us can benefit from a "How-to" for vaccum pot brewing detailing the "insider tips"?

Aurelio

Posted November 1, 2005 link

I haven't nailed the exact extraction time that i like yet but somewhere in the 2 1/2 to 3 minutes range is coming out pretty good.

Hope that helps but i'm sure your mileage will vary.

Dan

 
Dan Brewer
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easy_henry
Senior Member
easy_henry
Joined: 4 Oct 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Australia (Melbourne) & Hong Kong
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: CKX, Mini Gaggia, Arrarex...
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, EM0480,...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Hario 3-cups...
Drip: Cup-size stanless...
Roaster: popper, hotpan
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2005, 2:24pm
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

I normally place my thermoprobe in the bottom pot and wait for the water(preheated) until it gets to ~88ish C. Take out the probe and place the upper globe in. Wait for up northing, then grinds in.

I'm a bit tired, since it's early in the morning. That's what you're talking about right?

I think I need a coffee...

 
go easy, ride safe and keep brewing,
henry

LMWDP #093
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2005, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Vacpot and/or Santos question about process
 

easy_henry Said:

I normally place my thermoprobe in the bottom pot and wait for the water(preheated) until it gets to ~88ish C. Take out the probe and place the upper globe in. Wait for up northing, then grinds in.

I'm a bit tired, since it's early in the morning. That's what you're talking about right?

I think I need a coffee...

Posted November 3, 2005 link

Thats what i was doing also but what i found was the water goes north when the temp is still well below acceptable. It's also possible the upper part of the pot is cooling the water when it first comes up.


Dan

 
Dan Brewer
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