Posted Thu Nov 17, 2005, 8:31am Subject: Brewing Temps and
Been thinking about this for a couple of weeks now, thought I’d throw it out for comment/discussion.
I’ve been playing with my Bodum Santos and Esantos lately. Testing out some of the procedures that I’ve read about and I got to thinking about the issue regarding optimal temp for coffee brewing. As long as the temp reaches 200* +/- 5* for the majority of the brewing time, does it really matter if the coffee comes in contact with lower temps in the beginning? If you think about it, the same compounds that are going to be extracted at 180* are going to be extracted at 200*. The issue is, it seems to make sure that the temp doesn’t rise to a point where the unwanted flavors are extracted, and to make sure that the 200* temp is achieved to extract the desired flavors.
What really got me thinking about this is the Esantos. If I let the water get to 190*+ before I place the upper chamber on, I get an explosive trip North and the water reaches boiling before the heater switches off. If I place the upper chamber on at about 170*, I get a much better result and the upper chamber temp reaches about 205*.
Thoughts? Am I way off base here?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2005, 8:23pm Subject: Re: Brewing Temps and
Yes. If I extend the brew time to beyond the stock 45 sec to 1 min retention in the upper chamber, the water below creates enough steam that the temp in the upper chamber reaches close to 212*. The coffee tastes burnt. If I wait until the water in the lower section reaches 170* and then put the upper section on, I tend to get a less violent explosion when the majority of the water has moved north.
If I place the upper chamber on before 170*, my coffee tastes sour (under-brewed). So, there is an apparently small window of temps that can provide decent coffee.
Too bad there isn’t a simple way (w/out a variac) to lower the power of the heating element in the lower section. This would act much the same way I use my electric stovetop to make coffee with my manual santos.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,380 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
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Posted Sat Nov 19, 2005, 9:10pm Subject: Re: Brewing Temps and
djs134 Said:
Yes. If I extend the brew time to beyond the stock 45 sec to 1 min retention in the upper chamber, the water below creates enough steam that the temp in the upper chamber reaches close to 212*.
Held off trying to figure what you are actually saying. Brew time is the amount of time the coffee is actually in contact with the heated water in the upper bell but i don't think that's what you are saying.
I'm still confused.
#1 If the temp is 212f at the point you put in the grinds, then yes it is too hot.
#2 Is there a reason you are measuring temp in the lower chamber as it has little bearing on the temp of the coffee in the upper bell?
#3 Please clarify the questions and statements to make it easier to offer suggestions.
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2005, 9:34pm Subject: Re: Brewing Temps and
Besides manual (stove top vintage vacs), I also own and use both the mini e and large eSantos vac pots.. I have put 2 small rubber "feet" on the bottom of the heating section....by positioning the lowe and upper carafes with the handle of the lower/big curve of upper carafes at the high point, it lengthens the brew time to 2 minutes...optimum, I think.....I aqlso wait till 1/2 of the water below is bubbling a bit before attaching the upper (no coffee as yet) Then, with the upper 1/3 to 1/2 full of heated water, I add the coffee, cover ,and within about 15 second, the "explosion" occurs.....the bubbling Tim sees up top is not actual boiling, but the steam and pressure from the bottom carafe creating the gurgling up top)...helps to mix the mixture....I find I have to stir my Silex stove top to get the same results).....I've measured the temp after 1 minute up, and it measures at around 202.... with the problems that some of these units had (not mine), I'll bet there are some differences unit to unit.... On the other hand with the mini eSantos, I just attach the upper globe filled with coffee on the lower when the water below is roiling a bit....since the draw up is much faster, it's actually more temp stable...i think the coffe from the mini actually taste a bit sweeter. Sorry for the long post...hope I haven't confused anyone....too much
Posted Sun Nov 20, 2005, 5:42pm Subject: Re: Brewing Temps and
djs134 Said:
Yes. If I extend the brew time to beyond the stock 45 sec to 1 min retention in the upper chamber, the water below creates enough steam that the temp in the upper chamber reaches close to 212*.
Held off trying to figure what you are actually saying. Brew time is the amount of time the coffee is actually in contact with the heated water in the upper bell but i don't think that's what you are saying.
I'm still confused.
#1 If the temp is 212f at the point you put in the grinds, then yes it is too hot.
#2 Is there a reason you are measuring temp in the lower chamber as it has little bearing on the temp of the coffee in the upper bell?
#3 Please clarify the questions and statements to make it easier to offer suggestions.
Sorry about the lack of clarity in my initial post. There doesn’t seem to be a real clear way to describe the issue, but I’ll try again
No, I’m not adding the grounds to 212* water, although I see where you could get that
I measured the water temp in the lower chamber because I was curious as to the temp of the initial water traveling north and contacting the grounds. No, it doesn’t have a direct initial correlation to the temp of the water in the upper chamber, but once the “explosion” occurs, the water left in the lower chamber is left to leave as steam and the 212* steam passing through the upper chamber raises the water temperature directly above the filter and burns the coffee if I’m not careful.
Here’s the situation:
• If I put the upper chamber on at the start (water cold in lower chamber), the water that move north is well below the brew temp of 195*-205* when it first comes in contact with the grounds and the brew temp doesn’t reach the 200*+/-5* range long enough to properly brew the coffee. I get sour under-brewed java. • If I put the upper chamber on once the water in the lower chamber reaches 190*, the water explosively moves north and the added heat from the steam leaving the lower chamber raises the temp to above 207*. I get over-brewed, burnt coffee. • If I put the upper chamber on once the water reaches about 165* or so, I get a pretty good mixing on top caused by the bubbling that Robert spoke of, without adding so much heat that the water temp rises above 205*.
Here are the questions:
My best results come from the last procedure. However, the temperature of the initial water that comes in contact with the grounds is below 195* and it starts the extraction process by pulling out the most volatile compounds. Is this hurting my cup? Or am I ok since the temp in the upper chamber does eventually reach the proper range before the brew time is over?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
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