Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 12:32pm Subject: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
Hi everyone,
I'm just starting to get serious about coffee, and have gotten to the point where I really don't like making home brew because it just doesn't compare with the stuff I get from my local coffee shop. If you've seen my other posts here you might know that I was ready to go out and buy an espresso machine and a quality grinder like a Rocky, but I decided to slow down a little bit and learn how to make a good pot of drip coffee first.
So I replaced my el-cheapo machine with a Cuisinart Brew Central, some Melita flavor-pore filters, a cheap burr grinder by Oster. I figured that would be a step-up from a blade grinder and would be a good way to see if I'm really into grinding my own beans. If I find that it's too much trouble and mess at least I'm not going to be out too much money.
My favorite coffee shop also roasts their own beans, so I bought some of their House Blend and was hoping that I could brew a cup similar to theirs at home. Well so far the first two pots have been very disappointing. I don't like really strong coffee and when I use store-bought, dark-roast, fine-grind I typically use 6 tbsp for 8 cups. I tried this with my freshly ground beans using the finest setting on the grinder (which doesn't seem very fine) and it was really weak and bitter. So I tried again with 12 tbsp for 8 cups. It was stronger, but it's still bitter and not as strong or as flavourful as the cup of House Blend I buy from the shop.
Is the grinder the most likely culprit of the bad brew? I've been reading everything I can find here about grinders and I know that if you spend more you get more durability, more consistent results and finer grind, but how much does a grinder affect the taste of drip coffee?
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 2:05pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
I suspect from the way you describe the taste of your coffee, the problem is more with your brewer than the way you grind your beans. If your machine is not reaching proper brew temperature ( 195 to 205 ) , your coffee could very well taste weak and bitter. For drip coffee, the quality of the grind is much less important than the proper brewing temp. I have 4 almost new drip machines of various brands at home that all make lousy coffee because they fail to reach temperature. I am very happy now with my Presto and KMB and have purchased backups to these units because they work so well. I have used 3 different grinders for these machines and it seems to make only a small difference in the way my drip brew tastes.
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 2:32pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
Thanks for your response. I haven't tested it with a thermometer, but the temperature is definitely hotter than my old machine, so I'm not sure if that's the problem. I will check the temp on the next pot.
I was actually getting a pretty decent cup out of the Cuisinart using store bought ground coffee. So I expected fresh roasted, fresh ground beans to be at least as good if not better. That's why I was thinking the grinder was the weak point. I think I'm going to buy the same beans, but get the coffee shop to grind them for me next time to see if it makes a difference.
So I just ran 8 cups of water through my machine to test the temp. I don't how accurate my thermometer is and I just had it wedged between the carafe and the basket, but I measured 180 coming out of the basket. The warming plate is set to medium heat and after about 15 min it was still 180. Like I said, I thought the temperature was pretty good from a drinkability (is that a word) point of view, but maybe it needs to be hotter.
Do you think another 15 or 20 degrees would really make much difference?
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 3:54pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
I had a Brewcentral for several years and it really did a good job. It's one of the few maintstream brewers that is supposed to reach proper brew temp. One of the reasons I got it.
Trust your instincts. If you think it may be the grinder, try different settings and keep the same brewing parameters and see what your results are. Another thing that can help is to let the grounds bloom, and you can do this with the Brewcentral. Here is what I did:
Get everything ready to brew, but leave the carafe out. Pour hot water into the grounds basked (in the brewer) . Enough to cover the grounds, stir, and let bloom for a minute or so. Put the carafe in place and start the regular brew cycle.
I upgraded from a Cuisinart grinder to a Rocky. And there was a noticeable improvement in the coffee, including drip. So your grinder can make a difference. Also, ask your roaster how they brew and their grounds to water ratio. Maybe that's the secret?
Brent Roasting in an SC/TO and iRoast 2 Europiccola/Drip/Presspot
96C Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2003 Posts: 30 Location: St. Louis, Mo Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Valentina Grinder: Rocky Drip: TV Roaster: I-Roast,
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 4:25pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
I also think that the real problem is that the water is not hot enough. This is the common problem for almost all drip brewers. Heating the water to a proper temperature is the real strength of a commercial brewer.
hikerman Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Central Cal. coast Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: KA Pro Line, Zassenhaus,... Vac Pot: Silex wide mouth 4cup,... Drip: Cuisinart, Bonjour press... Roaster: Whirley-Pop stovetop
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 5:30pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
Hello arossphoto, It may be that the brew time is too long for the grind you are using and it is over extracting. How long does it take for a pot to brew? If you're extracting for more than 8 min then try a little coarser grind and see how that works.
Tweak1 Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Need recommendation Grinder: Solis Maestro Plus Vac Pot: Yama Roaster: Fresh Roast Plus 8
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2006, 7:26pm Subject: Re: Does a grinder make that much difference for drip?
The short answer is YES! Abso-freekin-loutley!! I, too, have recently gotten the coffee bug though until now I was a 2 cup guy- one in the morning and one at night. Now I know why; no matter where I had it, it never tasted very good. I had a $40 DeLonghi burr grinder, bought organic roasted beans, only ground for a few days at a time, used RO water and a gold filter for one cup (8-10 oz) brewing twice a day. I was uneducated, relying on intuition.
Now I'm drinking a lot more coffee, plus enjoying the hell out of learning about it. First, I bought a Yama vacuum pot and a roaster. I figured my grinder would suffice, at least until I could devour as much info as possible about grinders under $100 before purchasing. Nothing made sense at the price.
If I am prepared to spend $100 I am prepared to spend another $50 for quality. And to paraphrase a line from an old Paul Simon album- One Trick Pony "If you want some quality... $150 dollars seems to be the price you have to meet." And after much angst, I ordered a Solis Maestro Plus. It arrived today.
I thoroughly cleaned it to remove any chemical cleaning residue on every cleanable surface, including the burr! Wow what a burr. The thing that passes for a burr in the deLonghi is a joke. Anyway, I popped in some beans I roasted yesterday , dialed the setting one back from Drip on the dial, and let 'er rip, er grind.
As soon as I looked in the basket I knew this grinder was worth every penny. The grind was night and day (doesn't really express the difference) better than the de Longhi. Now please don't think I am picking on them. It is probably as good a $40 grinder as there is. It's just that we' re talking the difference between say a Kia and a Saab.
The grind reminded me of organic cocoa, used to make hot chocolate,- fluffy, light- a seductrice waiting for the nearby hot water to willingly succomb to its delicious charms. I haven't gotten into espresso yet, and that's where the older Maestro seemed to have the majority of complaints. From what I've read it seems to me espresso is an entity (art form) unto itself, and should be treated accordingly. A specail grinder for coffee, another for espresso. Does that sound crazy?
Consider this, as grown men and women hobbies go, you can put together one hell of a coffee and espresso rig for about what you would spend annually at a coffeee shop. That's a bargain, with a fun hobby thrown in for free.
Yes definately! You really can't make good coffee, no matter how good the grinder, with 180 degree water. It needs to be in the 195 degree range for good extraction of oils. Unfortunately most home drip makers don't reach this temperature as you have discovered. Do a search on the site and you discover the few coffee makers that do heat the water to proper temperatures.
The other option you have is to get a vac pot. They make absolutely great coffee, but they are a bit more work to use.
I bought the Cuisinart after reading the reviews here. There are a few negatives, but most of them are positive and many reviewers emphasize how hot the coffee is from this machine. It was also available locally. I don't think anyone here in Canada sells the Technivorm. I also liked the features like the timer which is great for heavy sleepers like me who hate to get up in the morning.
I'm going to try a few different grinds and will also try Oaklandguy's suggestion for blooming.
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