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Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
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jadventurous
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster CD...
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 7:52am
Subject: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

Hello,
Long time coffeeholic, first time poster.

I was excited to brew my first pot with my new Moccamaster CD (with thermal pot). I am willing to document my experience as others have, but I have one major issue-- coffee temperature.

Using a Raytek minitemp laser thermometer, I measured the filter water temperature on three separate brews (two were test runs with no coffee, one had coffee), and the temperature never got above about 160 F. I brewed 5 cups (about halfway on the machine), with the filter set to "halfway" open.

Do I have a "bum" machine? Or is there a break-in period? Am I doing something wrong? The reason I bought a Technivorm is because I read all the reviews about how it makes the coffee lap-scaldingly hot!

TIA,
Jadventurous
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varuscelli_II
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varuscelli_II
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: League City, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Drip: Technivorm KBT-741
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 11:17am
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

Hi, jadventurous

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right at all (from my limited experience).  

Your measurements seem really low, by at about 25 to 35 deg. F.  (depending on exactly where the measurement is taking place).  

I'd like to ask, though, just to make sure I understand.  Were you measuring the temp of the water/coffee in the filter holder?  (That's what I'm assuming from your words "I measured the filter water temperature"...).  Just checking to make sure.

My own measurements have showed well over 200 deg. F at the spray head, well over 190 deg. F in the filter holder, and well over 180 deg. F in the carafe (in a carafe preheated with approximately 125 deg. F tap water).  

And just in case, have you tested your Raytek for accuracy or tried simultaneously using another type of thermometer (even a meat thermometer) to see if the measurements are close with each device?   I understand that's professional level equipment, but is there any chance it might be giving an inaccurate reading in this application?  Just throwing that out there.  

In my own tests (not with any kind of expensive equipment), the the coffee temp didn't drop to as low as 160 until it had been in the carafe for over 4 hours.  

If the temperatures you are getting are really that low, I'd have to say that there's a problem with the coffeemaker itself.  :-(
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jadventurous
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster CD...
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 12:21pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

Thanks for your reply, Al!

Using your terminology, I was measuring the temp of the coffee/water mixture as it pooled in the filter holder before it dripped into the carafe. The temp in the carafe was about the same (it remained 150-160 F in the carafe). I didn't point the thermo directly at the spray head (but will try that next.)

I did test the laser thermo when I first purchased by pointing it to a pot of boiling water... it was right on at 212 F surface temp, so I'm pretty confident in that device.

So to heat the carafe, do you just swirl hot water in it right before brewing? Another good tip.

I did think that the temps I read are quite a bit lower than they should be... so next step is to call Boyd's and see if they will exchange it :(. Good thing I held on to my old Mr. Coffee as a backup measure!

Thanks again!
JAD

P.S. The thermo is the MT-6, found on http://www.raytek-northamerica.com/cat.html?cat_id=2.3.5  It is quite the geeky but handy cooking tool!
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varuscelli_II
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varuscelli_II
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: League City, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Drip: Technivorm KBT-741
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

Well, dang.  Yeah, if you checked your laser thermo device with boiling water and got a good reading, I think there'd be no reason to doubt its measurement in the Technivorm.  

One thing you might try (just out of curiosity), is to run just some water through the coffeemaker and into the  filter holder (without coffee, if you like), but close the filter holder switch and let the water level rise in the filter holder.  Then take a measurement when the filter holder is maybe two-thirds full, just to see what it shows.  The water ought to be somewhere between 190 and 195 deg. F. in the filter holder (hopefully, to the higher side. but from the measurements on mine you shouldn't get less than 190 deg. F in the filter holder).  

But man...if you're just getting that low temp (160 deg. F range), there would sure seem to be something wrong with the coffeemaker (the heater element, maybe?).  I'd definitely call Boyd's about it.  My guess is that they'd easily do an exchange for you.  

On heating the carafe, I just run hot water from my kitchen tap into it and let it sit for the first part of the brew cycle.  (That is, I place the carafe with the hot water in it to start the brew cycle.  With filter holder in the closed position, I let it fill about two-thirds up and give the coffee/water a stir (aka, "the Sweet Maria's technique").  Then I pour out the hot water that's been heating the carafe (some of it, anyway) into my waiting coffee cup (or two cups, if I"m making coffee for me and someone else) to heat up the coffee cup(s), and I dump the rest of the water.  Then I put the carafe back into place under the coffeemaker and open the filter holder to it's slow position and let the brew finish.  The hot water I poured from the carafe into my coffee cup stays there until I"m ready to pour a cup of coffee.  Then I dump the hot/warm water from the coffee cup, giving me a nice start with pre-warmed cup waiting for the coffee.  Mmmm....(I think I'll make some right now, since you've got me thinking about it).  ;-)

Al
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rmongiovi
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Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 10:06pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

I don't buy it.  There's no pump in the TV.  If water comes out of the brew head, it's because the steam from boiling water pushed it out.  That nice metal spout is going to conduct some heat away, but not that much.

My bet would be either inaccuracy of the thermometer or you're measuring the temperature of something you're not expecting.  You're talking about an infrared thermometer, right?  What's the spot size it's averaging over?  If you're really measuring the water plus part of the basket, I could understand your results....
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varuscelli_II
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varuscelli_II
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: League City, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Drip: Technivorm KBT-741
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007, 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

rmongiovi Said:

I don't buy it.  There's no pump in the TV.  If water comes out of the brew head, it's because the steam from boiling water pushed it out.

Posted April 11, 2007 link

That's an awfully good point.  Seems like if the water was not getting as hot as it's supposed to get, the coffeemaker would not likely be putting out water at all.  Right?  :-/
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DavidinVT
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Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007, 12:48pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

varuscelli_II Said:

That's an awfully good point.  Seems like if the water was not getting as hot as it's supposed to get, the coffeemaker would not likely be putting out water at all.  Right?  :-/

Posted April 11, 2007 link

Hi,

Yes....I think I remember reading somewhere that the Technivorm is explicitly designed in such a way that it's impossible for it to deliver water to the grounds unless the water has been heated to "steam rising" temperature.

Best wishes,

David
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jadventurous
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster CD...
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007, 1:51pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster -- "Is it hot enough for ya?" FINAL VERDICT: NO
 

You are correct about the physics of boiling/water delivery.  The thermo I am using is in fact a single point, but I compensate by "stirring" the point around the pool of liquid in the filter. The thermo tracks the real-time temp as well as a max temp. It did reach a high of 188 this morning, but the average/median water temp in the filter basket was 160 F.

Here is a snippet from a sweetmaria's page. It addresses my experience to the tee (that is, by the time coffee drips into the pot, it's cooled down to 150-155 deg.)

"We have had some feedback from folks who find the coffee brewed not hot enough in the Technivorms. There is a steep drop off once the water hits the grounds and then drops to the pot - that is to be expected. Testing the machines at our warehouse - I get the following temperatures: 195 to 205 degrees F at the brewhead; in the grounds, 160 degrees F; and 156 degrees F in the pot. I find 156 degrees too hot to actually taste anything - so I let it cool a bit. Some folks find this too cool - they are used to the coffee being heated on a hot plate above brewing temperature but I can't taste anything in a liquid that hot - so reheating the coffee does not make much sense for me. I know that some folks are used to coffee that hot though - that is what they are accustomed to. -Tom" (taken from http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.technivorm.shtml)

I must say that after two days with the new machine, I can actually taste a difference in the coffee... it's much better. I only wish it were hotter! I think my expectations were too high. But somehow, Starbucks and the other retailers can deliver a cup that's still 190 deg. or above after it hits the cup.  That's all I want from my coffeemaker! Is that too much to ask? :)

Sadly, I will probably be sending it back, and continue my quest for the perfect home-brewed cup...

Thanks for everyone's input!
JAD
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steamer
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steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007, 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster CD question-- "Is it hot enough for ya?"
 

did you point the IR device at the spray head and see what that temp was? That thing get way hot, too hot to handle. I would still use a different temp probe just to see for sure. I get mine hot enough that you can not drink from the crafe, thats hot enough for me.
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varuscelli_II
Senior Member
varuscelli_II
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: League City, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Drip: Technivorm KBT-741
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007, 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Technivorm Moccamaster -- "Is it hot enough for ya?" FINAL VERDICT: NO
 

jadventurous Said:

I must say that after two days with the new machine, I can actually taste a difference in the coffee... it's much better. I only wish it were hotter! I think my expectations were too high. But somehow, Starbucks and the other retailers can deliver a cup that's still 190 deg. or above after it hits the cup.  That's all I want from my coffeemaker! Is that too much to ask? :)

Sadly, I will probably be sending it back, and continue my quest for the perfect home-brewed cup...

Thanks for everyone's input!
JAD

Posted April 12, 2007 link

Hey, don't give up on it yet.  Good idea from steamer about checking the temp of the metal spray head itself.  That sucker DOES get hot...  :-)    And it would be interesting to see what kind of temp you get off the chrome, as measured from perhaps the side of the spray head.  If you do that, please do share the results in this thread.  I'd sure like to know what kind of reading you get.  

And you might just try and talk with someone at Boyd's and see what they have to say, after you've finished all your temperature checks. It still might be in the realm of possibility that there's something the matter with the unit you received.  

And I gotta tell ya', even though I find it to have its faults, I love the coffee I'm making with mine.  I'd hate to have to give it up at this point.  ;-)

Al
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