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1biggs
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Md
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 1:47pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

I do not agree with this way of adjusting temp output. I have a new VP17-2 and the spray head temps reach 175F. After long conversations with Bunn tech assistance, I found out 2 things. First, the temp probe is set 1 inch from the bottom. The reason for this is:

Cold water enters from the tank bottom, if you have your probe set too high, the chamber fills with cold water before the temp probe senses the water change, thus letting colder water to the spray head. heat rises while cold settles. If your probe is set high, it will sense the highest water temp near the top and not at the bottom where the cold water is! I did find by tilting the probe towards the side of the tank and away from the heater coil adds a few more degrees to the output.

Secondly:
Bunn has many varying VP machines out, the newer ones are shipped with a lower thermostat, because folks who live high up in the mountains tend to have water boil at lower temps. Since my unit came from Florida, and it tends to be hot all the time there, I believe it has the lower temp thermostat.

Bottom line here is if you want to see higher temps at spray heads then order a 203F thermostatic switch.
Adding the 3 hole spray nozzle or doing the toothpick mod does help, BUT, if your unit was made with a low
thermostat then all the tooth pick mods and hole changes are limited at best.

Hope I cleared up this issue. I love my coffee and I am working to peak this unit out. I'll report back as soon as I get this higher thermostat switch.

:)
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1biggs
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Md
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Nov 18, 2009, 8:28pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

As promised I am back with some more helpful info. I will cover 2 ways that will raise the temp output of your Bunn VP coffee maker. The first way is easiest but requires you to spend some money and time. The second way is the cheap way and is not recommended by me as it is somewhat unsafe unless you are a skilled tradesman knowledgeable in electronics and mechanical engineering, much like me :)

Method 1-
Call Bunn parts and order a tea thermostat assembly rated at 206F part number 03024.005.  This will raise the output IMHO to where it should be from the factory. This thermostat clicks louder on and off, is heavier built but does perform very well at raising the temp output. The thermo type sensor is thicker and is harder to bend, it does come coiled up and you must carefully and slowly uncoil the amount needed. It also has extra wires and screws. This switch uses screws to fasten the wires on the switch, where the factory 04314.001 type switch has hand shake type connectors. Set the temp probe within one inch of the bottom tank. Change the wires. I set mine to peak 200-203F.

method 2-
Warning! Do not perform this unless you are willing to accept your OWN liability as to outcome, be it good or bad!! Only recommended for the skilled craftsman types. You will know exactly who you are just by reading below, if you feel uneasy about this then DO NOT PROCEED WITH THIS METHOD, USE METHOD 1 ABOVE!!

Remove thermo switch assembly completely from unit. Remove the switch mounting plate from the switch (knob then the 2 screws). Using a sharpie marker, mark the relationship of the switch housing and top plate, run a mark all around the switch this way you won't mess up going back. Notice where the thermo coupler lead enters the top switch. Remove the screws holding the top switch together while keeping slight compression tension on the switch halves. Gently separate switch, this will be easy as the internal spring will force the switch apart. Basic breakdown of this switch is:

end plate-spring-Plastic plunger disc-thermo expan valve and coupler-top cover-knob adjustor-spring plate.
The white plastic plunger is what needs our attention. Using a dial micrometer, measure total length of this plunger disc. We want to remove .010 of an inch from the large side, not from the finger side. I suggest running this plastic plunger on a table with 180 sand paper then work down to 1000 fine to finish. Do not remove more then  ten thousands of an inch!
Clean and reassemble switch using your sharpie markings as a guide. Reinstall switch, setting the thermo coupler with in 1 inch from bottom tank.

What this method does is adjust the internal switch cut out temp by increasing the gap between the finger and the switch contact. The expandeable thermo valve will need to expand more before the switch cuts out. Do NOT remove material from the finger end, remove it from the larger plastic disc end. If you follow directions outlined here to the letter you should be good to go!

I can't tell you in words how much I love this Bunn VP maker now!

:)
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,766
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Nov 19, 2009, 2:40pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

My VPR-APS is very easy to adjust, take the top off and twist the knob!

If my thermostat were to ever fail, just for giggles, I might be inclined to replace it with a PID unit. Just think of dialing in whatever temp you want by pushing a few buttons.... plus the snazzy digital read out wouldn't hurt anything either!

My brewer does NOT have a ready to brew light. I just leave it on for about half an hour and feel the side of the brewer to see if the heater is on (you can feel slight vibrations when the water is hot and the heater is on)

This would be another reason to add a PID, there is lots of room in the case for one if you so desire :P

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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The_Shadow
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 504
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: NS Aurelia 2 group, 1977...
Grinder: NS MDX, NS Grinta, KyM...
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: BUNN VPR/LPG Combo
Roaster: Leave That To The Pros
Posted Fri Nov 20, 2009, 10:28am
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

gime2much Said:

UNPLUG the unit and remove the top which is held in place by 3, possibly 4 screws. The adjustable thermostat is right there.

I have one that max at 201 and another that is 203.

Dan

Posted November 19, 2007 link

Dan,
I have a few questions for you regarding your knowledge of the Bunn VPR. Can you e-mail me at shadow745@embarqmail.com when you have a chance? Thanks......
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1biggs
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Md
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Nov 20, 2009, 10:02pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

"My VPR-APS is very easy to adjust, take the top off and twist the knob!"

First off this thread is about a VP-17, and the thermostat is not located under the top on the VP-17. It is located behind the bottom pot by removing 4 screws. Also, if your unit is made with the typical 180 thermostat, which I think it is, you can turn the knob all day long and not see the much desired 200F at the spray head!

Same goes for all VP series makers. You can not make 200+ from a 180 temp switch without mods.

Dan was lucky, his unit came with a high output switch, or someone changed it.
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Fri Nov 20, 2009, 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

You are correct that on the VP 17-1 & 17-2 the thermostat is located behind the front panel. My question is, how did you find out your unit has a 180F max thermo? I've owned 3 of the VP series, 1-17, 1 R and 1 S. All are capable of being set to over 200f. Bunns own site states the ideal temperature to brew coffee is 195-205f. Even the home units do this very well. Why would a company noted for delivering water at the correct temperature to the grind implement the use of 180f thermostats.

Doesn't make sense about yours having the low temp stat since it came from Florida. We here in the swamps consider 40' above sea level a mountain top.


Edit: From Bunn.com, VP17 1,2,3, page 8 of the operating service manual....

  1. Water Temperature

Place an empty funnel on an empty dispenser beneath the sprayhead. Initiate a brew cycle and check the water temperature immediately below the sprayhead with a thermometer.
The reading should not be less than 195F (91C). Adjust the control thermostat to increase the water temperature. Replace if necessary.

 
Dan Brewer
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,766
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Nov 23, 2009, 7:42am
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

1biggs Said:

"My VPR-APS is very easy to adjust, take the top off and twist the knob!"

First off this thread is about a VP-17, and the thermostat is not located under the top on the VP-17. It is located behind the bottom pot by removing 4 screws. Also, if your unit is made with the typical 180 thermostat, which I think it is, you can turn the knob all day long and not see the much desired 200F at the spray head!

Same goes for all VP series makers. You can not make 200+ from a 180 temp switch without mods.

Dan was lucky, his unit came with a high output switch, or someone changed it.

Posted November 20, 2009 link

Hymmmm.

When you quote me, please give me credit...... either good or bad.

I guess I was lucky also. My brewer has no problem hitting 205 on a thermometer even if the knob is located in a different location than the VP-17. I have been at this game for a while and I would not post anything that I did not know to be true and testable.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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1biggs
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Md
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Nov 23, 2009, 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

Ok sorry if I must sound harsh but I do know what's what. My info comes from people who work at Bunn
including the parts department and the tech's.

Bunn has made different variants of the pour over, and lately, they have used lower output thermo
switches and lower output heaters. All the Bunn pour overs out now have them. What your manual says
is much different then mine. Without testing it you really don't know now do you? I was surprised to hear
the tech tell me that Bunn feels any temp around 170 is fine as it will release the oils and flavor of beans.
Also, since the Bunn is commercial it leans toward commercial purchased coffee grinds. This means if the
coffee manufacturers are adding wood or other ingredients, then Bunn is on top of it and is adjusting out-
put temps accordingly. In any regard, I suggest doing an actual test like I did.

True test is done using a temp probe like that on my fluke tester, also a quick but not as accurate test can
be done using a high end laser temp pointer. The tech at Bunn told me what temp switches are being used
when I drilled him about which one mine had. He searched for about 15 minutes and came up with the tea thermostat part I listed above. Don't believe me? Read consumer reports about Bunn failing tests because temp output was too low. Comments are in this forum too.

Coffee temps I suggest are based on having 200F output. Bunn has switched to 180F. If your unit has the
180 and you pour cool water in, temps will quickly drop down to 130 before the pot is done. I have tested and
re tested and came up with a quick way to fix this. To me coffee should be hot, so hot you have to sip it for a few minutes before you can actually start drinking it. That's my personal pref while others may differ.

Keep in mind these new switches will be used as a replacement if (God forbid!) yours goes bad.

Again I want to apologize if I sounded harsh.  

:)
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1biggs
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Md
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Nov 23, 2009, 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

Gimme, are you confusing the cutout temp switch with the thermo temp switch? I know the cutout temp switch is rated much higher and that is used to open the temp circuit if the tank reaches boiling point. Mine lists this temp cutout at 230. The temp cutout is ONLY used to open the circuit if tank reaches 210F. It's the temp thermo switch
that cuts on and off under normal operation.

Also on my manual (also available pdf online) has no statement as to water temp output nor how to check it.
The only thing I see in another manual is how to test the switch to determine if it is good or bad...
I compared the VP pour over pdf manuals and still cannot find any info from Bunn matching your statement.

If I had a copy of this statement from Bunn while I was arguing with the tech I could have shut him up quick.

;)


"Hymmmm.

When you quote me, please give me credit...... either good or bad."

Cable, I quoted you accurately and I seriously doubt your thermometer tester is accurate, don't tell me you used a simple mouth thermometer or maybe a cheap dial one you stuff in a piece of meat??

:)
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Mon Nov 23, 2009, 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Adjusting Water Temps on BUNN VP17/Commercial
 

No, I can guarantee that neither calblacksmith or myself are the ones confused

My measurements were taken with a calibrated Fluke and a 30ga K-type thermocouple. Take the spray screen off and hold the thermocouple in the stream. CAUTION>>> Burns are likely.

Click Here for the Bunn pdf service manual for the VP-17 series. Look on page 8, item 5. If I remember correctly the over temperature cut-out is 230f which could never be reached in an open system like Bunns pour-over unless it ran dry. Plumbed in is different of course.

I have a feeling the tech you spoke to was blowing smoke up your kazoo.


1biggs Said:

Also, since the Bunn is commercial it leans toward commercial purchased coffee grinds. This means if the
coffee manufacturers are adding wood or other ingredients, then Bunn is on top of it and is adjusting out-
put temps accordingly.

Posted November 23, 2009 link

Huh??????


1biggs Said:

also a quick but not as accurate test can be done using a high end laser temp pointer.

Posted November 23, 2009 link

Might as well use your finger tip. Reflection throws in some serious bad results when trying to test water.



1biggs Said:

If your unit has the 180 and you pour cool water in, temps will quickly drop down to 130 before the pot is done.

Posted November 23, 2009 link

If your VP-17 is dropping 50f during the pour, the low thermostat is the least of your problem. Mine varies no more than 2f. The VP series holding tank keeps 3 carafes volume hot and the heater (1600 watt) kicks on at the start of the pour.

 
Dan Brewer
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