brianr0131 Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Philly, PA Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2007, 6:49pm Subject: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
I bought what I thought might have been a decent Burr grinder recently after reading how bad blade grinders are. I got the Cuisinart DBM-8 and it's really a piece of jumk. I wish I would've read more about it here before buying it. I get much better results for my Aeropress with the blade grinder (Krups) at 15 seconds for 2 scoops. I have a few questions.
What does a blade grinder do that's bad?
Is there a good burr grinder that can do the job for 50 dollars or so? I don't think there is from what I am reading.
Will the average person taste the difference between blade ground and burr ground? I have to say that I prefer the blade ground product now, but I think it's only because of how bad the cuisinart is.
rmongiovi Senior Member Joined: 7 Feb 2006 Posts: 246 Location: Atlanta, GA Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Drip: Technivorm Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2007, 7:13pm Subject: Re: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
Ideally, you'd like all the coffee bean bits produced by the grinder to be the same size. Extraction of the coffee into water is a surface phenomenon - it happens through the surface of the bean bit. The smaller you grind the bits, the more surface area there is per amount of coffee, and the faster the coffee will be extracted by the bean. There are good chemicals in the coffee that you want to extract, and bad ones which make the coffee bitter that you don't want to extract. If all the bean bits are the same size, then you can adjust them based on how long you're going to steep the coffee and control the extraction so you maximize the amount of good and minimize the amount of bad.
Blade grinders, and cheap burr grinders, make it difficult to exercise that control. Especially with blade grinders, the coffee bean bits are all different sizes. That means some bits will be under extracted and some will be over extracted no matter what you do with the steep time. Roy
Posted Thu Nov 22, 2007, 1:21am Subject: Re: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
I think the least expensive "real" electric burr grinder is the Bodium Antigua. I think it uses the same burr set as the Solis machines. It makes a good bit more noise than the Solis but it is cheaper.
Phil
brianr0131 Said:
I see what you're saying there, and it makes sense to me. I guess I'll be looking for a good deal on a good burr grinder then. Suggestions?
Posted Thu Nov 22, 2007, 6:52am Subject: Re: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
brianr0131 Said:
I bought what I thought might have been a decent Burr grinder recently after reading how bad blade grinders are. I got the Cuisinart DBM-8 and it's really a piece of jumk. I wish I would've read more about it here before buying it. I get much better results for my Aeropress with the blade grinder (Krups) at 15 seconds for 2 scoops. I have a few questions.
What does a blade grinder do that's bad?
Is there a good burr grinder that can do the job for 50 dollars or so? I don't think there is from what I am reading.
Will the average person taste the difference between blade ground and burr ground? I have to say that I prefer the blade ground product now, but I think it's only because of how bad the cuisinart is.
After years of exploring various coffee crushing and extracting methods one conclusion I have come to, and this is opinion, is that there are no good blade pulverizers and there are very definitely some very bad burr grinders.
The question of what a blade grinder does that is bad has already been answered. I will answer the implied question of what a bad burr does that's bad.
It all comes down to burr slop, or burr wobble. My first burr was that Cuisinart and when I first started using it I thought I had reached heaven. The coffee was so much better than from my blade. Within 2 weeks though, the burrs started wobbling so badly that I was getting 1/2 dust and 1/2 boulders regardless of which setting I picked. If you think about it is easy to visualize. With these two burrs wobbling back and forth against each other on one side of the leaning burr you have big chunks falling through and on the other the burrs are pretty much leaning against each other and spewing powder.
It is expensive to fix this burr slop. Ideally you want you huge burrs attached to big heavy brass burr carriers and the motor and mounts to drive these burrs without any wobble. Prosumer to Commercial machines.
Most of us have to start with a compromise machine of some sort. Maybe trade the brass burr carriers or 250 lb burrs for more reasonable 100 lb burrs and some plastic in the construction. Cheapos to High Quality Consumer units.
If your budget allows for say $200 you can probably swing one of the entry level prosumer models. $240-$250 will get you a very respectable long lasting on-sale Rocky. I had one of these apart just yesterday and was again impressed at how inexpensive these units are. What I mean is that when you see the heavy duty construction of every single piece inside this machine, it is kind of surprising that they are able to sell these new for only $330.
Imo you really should spend at least $100 on something like a refurb Solis Maestro Plus to get some balance of performance and longevity. With this unit you might expect to replace the burrs a little more often than on the Prosumer units but the quality of the grind is really very good with it. One other option might be the Capresso Infinity, the price is certainly right, only $80 or so. I bought these for several family and friends last X'mas. The grind quality is pretty good. The design of the unit is slightly flawed, ie it retains more grounds than any other machine I have ever seen, but it does not really affect performance.
Will the average user notice the difference? Very much yes. I was an average user when I got my first burr. It actually makes a huge difference in the cup. Most people have no idea how much of the bitter extracts in coffee come from the overextracting of that dust in the grind. But remove that dust and the same people will only be wondering why the bitterness is gone.
Dooglas Senior Member Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 403 Location: Portland, OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar, La Pavoni Grinder: Ascaso, Solis Drip: Cuisinart CBC, Bodum press Roaster: GeneCafe, Caffe Rosto
Posted Thu Nov 22, 2007, 11:14am Subject: Re: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
Star$$ has carried rebranded low end Solis grinders for years, the squarish one is actually a rebarnded Solis 166. I'm am not sure the corresponding model number for the rounder base grinder they stock now. These go on sale at Star$$ every so often and are readily available through eBay at around $50. They do a good job for french press and drip.
Eiron Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 165 Location: Loveland, Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill 0930 Grinder: Quick Mill 031, Solis 166 Drip: Technivorm KBTS Roaster: frying pan & wooden spatula
Posted Thu Nov 22, 2007, 2:48pm Subject: Re: Bad Burr or Good Blade???
Well, I guess I'm going to go against the bean here. Up until two years ago I used a blade grinder exclusively. The Braun $20 model (whatever it's called now). If I'm trying to grind coarse (press pot), it's not very consistent. However, if I'm grinding finer (drip or moka pot) I get a very consistent grind. The key for me is counting seconds & listening to the grinder. When the sound/pitch of the blades change, I know I have a good grind for moka. Counting seconds during that time gives me a good grinding measure to estimate how much shorter to grind for drip. (OK, how confusing is that sentence??) The grinding process is short enough that I honestly don't believe there's any "heat damage" done to the beans that doesn't also occur during burr grinding. I base this opnion on the similar temperature rise I can feel in the beans now that I'm using a burr grinder (Barista/Maestro). I mean, realistically, they're not anywhere near 200°F when you're finished grinding. Then you immediately dump them out of the grinder & soak them in near-boiling water. Not a problem using a blade grinder.
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