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Poor Man's Clover
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gt
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Mpls/St Paul MN
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: None
Grinder: Virtuoso
Drip: Cones & CCD
Roaster: P1 w/ variacs
Posted Sat Dec 8, 2007, 8:00pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

Like I said above, my main interest is to make standard strength coffee using a water-to-coffee ratio of 16 to 1 as quickly as possible.  Two things Iíve tried are a little off topic here but close enough I think to mention them here.   Even though these didnít work or work very good maybe they will spark an idea for someone else.  

The first was to get a mixture of 1 oz of coffee and 16 oz. of water through my AeroPress in one pressing.  I did this by first mixing the coffee and water in a beaker then using air pressure to push part of the mix through then add the rest of the mix and finish with AP plunger.  This works but I have to push down hard on the stopper to keep it from jumping out plus it takes at least twice if not 3 times as long this way thus defeating the much of the short AP pressing time.  The stopper is a number 12 from a home brewing store and pump is just from a blood pressure measuring setup.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gt651/875fcd0b.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gt651/7a44b20b.jpg

The second thing Iíve tried was to speed up the standard pour-over cone method.  I tried to use a partial vacuum below the filter to pull the coffee through faster by putting a barbed hose fitting into a cone filter holder plus a  rubber gasket for sealing.  This didnít work at all because air just went around the paper filter through the flutes in the cone.  Iíve also tried putting air pressure on top of the cone but the air also went through the flutes.  I got this idea here and Iíve tried to contact the company but I havenít had any luck.  The cone they use must not have flutes.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gt651/ce932a26.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gt651/a89348f7.jpg
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darrylr
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 253
Location: Washington
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 6:25am
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

Isn't this basically just a variant of a vac pot? Admittedly it's probalby easier to control the process with the Buchner funnel method, but those Coorstek funnels sure are expensive.

Darryl
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WonderClown
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 220
Location: NC, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gave away a Saeco Via Veneto...
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, Zassenhaus
Drip: Buchner funnel + vacuum...
Roaster: WB Poppery I
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 6:45am
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

darrylr Said:

Isn't this basically just a variant of a vac pot?

Posted December 9, 2007 link

Sure, in the sense that any method of brewing coffee is a variant of any other: Combine grounds and water for some period of time, then separate grounds from water.  Vac pots give you no control over temperature or contact time, and they require a coarser grind than the buchner funnel method permits.  This method lets you choose your temperatue, choose your time within some reasonable limits.  (It's pretty hard to do this in less than 30 seconds, though with a coarser grind it would be possible.  You can make it take as long as you like -- overnight if you want to try cold brewing, for example.)  Also, you actually stir water and grounds together in this method, resulting in quicker and more even extraction.  These are all characteristics shared with the Aeropress method -- except with a big enough funnel you can do much more than you can do with the Aeropress, and also the coffee never touches plastic.

It may not be necessary to get expensive Coorstek funnels.  I'm curious to see if gt has luck with the cheaper generic ones.
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coffee_monkey
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 248
Location: Boston, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale, FE-AR...
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Hario MSC-2
Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2
Drip: Hario DPW-1
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 12:57pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

WonderClown Said:

Vac pots give you no control over temperature or contact time, and they require a coarser grind than the buchner funnel method permits.  .

Posted December 9, 2007 link

You obvious have absolutely NO knowledge of how to properly use a vacpot. It's what Clover set out to imitate and (IMO) could not quite match just yet. I have exact ontrol of temperature and contact time with my vacpot brewing technique and with possible exceptions of Clover and Espresso, it is the only brew method with a near flat-line extraction temperature profile.


Ben

 
www.barismo.com
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WonderClown
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 220
Location: NC, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gave away a Saeco Via Veneto...
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, Zassenhaus
Drip: Buchner funnel + vacuum...
Roaster: WB Poppery I
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

coffee_monkey Said:

You obvious have absolutely NO knowledge of how to properly use a vacpot. It's what Clover set out to imitate and (IMO) could not quite match just yet. I have exact ontrol of temperature and contact time with my vacpot brewing technique and with possible exceptions of Clover and Espresso, it is the only brew method with a near flat-line extraction temperature profile.

Posted December 9, 2007 link

My apologies.  I've never actually used a vac pot, but I thought I understood how they worked, and I thought that included the fact that water boils up into the top (grounds) chamber and mixes with the grounds, thereby ensuring that the brewing temperature is just beneath boiling.  I suppose that you have some control over time because you can leave it on the heat after that happens or take it off right away.  But can you brew at, say, 160F with 10 seconds of full contact time and 30 seconds of filtering using an espresso grind?  (Not that I would advocate doing that, but you are claiming exact control of temperature and time...)

One thing vacpot does have on my method is the "near flat-line" temperature during brewing and extracting.  I am not convinced that this is essential, but with effort (pre-heating the porcelain funnel) I could come pretty close.

I'm not religious about my method.  It has pros and cons, just like any other -- vacpot included.
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coffee_monkey
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 248
Location: Boston, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale, FE-AR...
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Hario MSC-2
Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2
Drip: Hario DPW-1
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 2:18pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

You can have water travel up north without the water in the upper bowl boiling. The temperature of my brewing range is from 190F to 198F. I have accidentally made upper bowl temp in the low 180s. I believe there are tricks you can do to obtain a real low brewing temperature, but I have yet to have the need to validate this.

By timing when you place the top and regulating the gas (I use a butane burner), you can control the temperature of the brewing chamber. Temp is measured to be stable within 1 degree for about 2 to 3 min (maybe longer... I never brew that long).

Brew time is set by as fast as you can stir (I try to keep my initial stir within 5 seconds) and when you kill the flame (and place the damp towel) - it can be as short as 5 seconds or as long as there are water remaining in the lower bowl (the longest I have it on flame is about 5 or 6 min). My brew time is 1 minute.

Draw-down (filtering) time with my method is around 20 seconds with about +3 second variation (affected by stirring speed).

Take a look at the video if you are remotely interested in my method (btw, the stirring technique has since been improved for better saturation and shorter duration).

Please measure your pre-heating funnel and let us know your results - I would be surprised if there is less than 1 degree of temperature drop from the beginning to the end of the brewing duration.


Ben

 
www.barismo.com
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gt
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Mpls/St Paul MN
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: None
Grinder: Virtuoso
Drip: Cones & CCD
Roaster: P1 w/ variacs
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 2:26pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

Iíve never used a vacpot either but I wonder if the top part could be used, instead of a buchner funnel, with a filter flask?

Another question, could a bunn type paper filter be adapted/used instead of the cloth filter in a Yama vacpot?
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

I'm sure there are a lot of folks that are fooled by the vac pot in that when the water arrives in the upper bell it is not up to brewing temp. While it appears to be boiling it can be if fact 170f. I've registered this on a fluke with thermocoupler on several pots.

That being said it would be possible to brew in a vac pot at temperatures between 175f and 212f at sea level. I'm guessing that few would brew at those extremes but it is possible. Close watch with a good meter and enough control over the heat source will let you tweak your brew in  a vac pot to the bean and the taste chosen.

Dan

 
Dan Brewer
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coffee_monkey
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 248
Location: Boston, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale, FE-AR...
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Hario MSC-2
Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2
Drip: Hario DPW-1
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 2:58pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

gt Said:

Another question, could a bunn type paper filter be adapted/used instead of the cloth filter in a Yama vacpot?

Posted December 9, 2007 link

Hario makes a filter that holds paper filter in additional to cloth filter. However, based on my own experiments (along with many), paper filter resulted in a inferior cup.


Ben

 
www.barismo.com
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gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2007, 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Clover
 

coffee_monkey Said:

However, based on my own experiments (along with many), paper filter resulted in a inferior cup.


Ben

Posted December 9, 2007 link

Yep. One of the main points of a vac pot is that the flavor oils are not filtered out by paper resulting in a more full bodied cup.

Dan

 
Dan Brewer
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