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Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

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MarkPrince
Moderator

Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,054
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea
Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano
Vac Pot: 1922 Silex
Drip: Krups Moka Brew
Roaster: Hottop

Posted Sat Jan 17, 2004, 2:50pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

dagger Said: Sounds like a good weekend device, but it may scare off my wife a bit. That, and of course the reviewer had to note that my fav coffee, Guatemalan, is not recommended!! Posted January 14, 2004 link What, your wife would be scared off by something that's easier to clean than a normal auto drip machine? :P (putting protective gear on) Seriously, the machine is not dangerous, and it is easier to clean and use than a normal auto drip. I do find that it's not very happy brewing bright coffees, but I should qualify that by saying I don't like bright coffees to begin with. I did have a question for you though - what are you using to measure your brewing temps, and how? Your data (which I do not doubt you measured!) is different than some of mine on the same machines. I have a pretty complex kit set up with a dual probe Fluke Series 52 datalogger, and for consistency and accuracy, I'm always placing the beads in the same testing areas in a machine when possible. On auto drips, one is at the dispersion screen, one's in the bed of coffee. Cheers Mark

Mark Prince, CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeKid.com CoffeeGeek on Youtube: www.youtube.com/coffeegeek CoffeeGeek's Flickr Stream: www.flickr.com/photos/coffeegeek

dagger
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 59
Location: Fuquay Varina
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Krups Pro Aroma

Posted Mon Jan 19, 2004, 12:13pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

Hi Mark - good questions. My digital thermometer is not a Fluke calibrated unit, but one I picked up a couple of years ago when I was having some heat pump issues and needed an instant read temp device. I think I actually got it in a kitchen appliances department! Works very good though as I compared it to the HVAC technicians digital probe and various bulb thermometers (just recently made some manual pour over drip coffee with a Melitta cone holder and was measuring the water as I brought it to a boil and it hit exactly 212* @ full boil). That said, it could be off - but at least it is consistent from pot to pot. When I go on these coffee machine testing vendettas, I try not to use any coffee at first because I find it is easier to return it and exchange for a different machine. That and if it won't brew at 195* or hotter or it takes too long then I know it's not worth it. I try to test at 2 locations - one right at the shower/dispersal head and the other at the basket outlet. Many drip machines are designed such that it is very difficult to securely place the probe at the shower/dispersal head and thus all can be measured at the basket outlet. However, at the basket outlet without any coffee/filters may still show a drop of a couple of degrees compared to the head location - but that works for me if the basket outlet hits 195* then I know it is likely a little higher. So here's what I've tested (using basket outlet location) within the last 2 weeks: Melitta Fast Brew: 184* and 8.25m/12cups DeLonghi Retro: 188* and 10m/12cups Capresso Elegance: 185* and 9m/10cups Cuisinart Brew Central: 179* (didn't bother with timings!) Gevalia 12 Cup: 197* and 14.5m/12cups (Hot!! but took too long :( ) AND WE HAVE A WINNER (for now):: Krups ProAroma 12cup: 198* and 9.5m/12cups!! Just did the Krups Saturday night after returning the Cuisinart (btw, have to mention the great customer service from Linens N Things for allowing me to "test" 3 machines and taking them back with full refunds!). I actually made a mistake remembering a review here that said (like many other reviews I've read) that Krups hasn't made a decent drip machine in a couple of years that could be recommended until he tested this new unit. Well, it was the Krups Ultimate he was testing, not the Pro as I fumbled with my memory. However, that turned fortuitous. It's got alot of features included "Pro", full 4..12, and 1..3 brew cycles. The one to use is "Pro" - that brews the fastest and hottest. It also has a carafe pre-heat option, but it takes about 4.5min before the brewing starts and I don't like the idea of the coffee grinds sitting in the basket even that long. Only negatives are the carafe catches on the spring loaded basket open valve causing it not to insert smoothly and after brewing some water spills out of the dispersal head when cleaning/moving the machine. The temps do change over time with approximates being 193-194* @ 4cup, 196-197@ 6 cups, 198@ 10cups, and then it hits 200* above 10 cups but you can hear it mixing with some steam at the end (and remember this is at the basket outlet valve). It would be nice to have it complete under 8 minutes, but this is close enough for now. And the coffee tastes very good from it! Guess that counts :) I may still look into the Technivorm (if it passes WAF) or even the Newco OCS-8 thermal unit. Also am seriously thinking about a real Bodum vac pot for weekend cuppings (any body vouch that the stovetop version works as well as gel-flame version?). Hey, somebody even gave a cheap Black&Decker great marks for temp and speed!?! Anyway, Linens 'N Things are relieved I'm not showing up today, dagger

ksmccul
Senior Member

Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 257
Location: iowa
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: pro-line
Vac Pot: old school glass cory
Drip: Mellita Clarity/Pour...
Roaster: convection/stir crazy combo

Posted Mon Jan 19, 2004, 12:51pm
Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

dagger Said:

WE HAVE A WINNER (for now):: Krups ProAroma 12cup: 198* and 9.5m/12cups!!

Just did the Krups Saturday night after returning the Cuisinart (btw, have to mention the great customer service from Linens N Things for allowing me to "test" 3 machines and taking them back with full refunds!). I actually made a mistake remembering a review here that said (like many other reviews I've read) that Krups hasn't made a decent drip machine in a couple of years that could be recommended until he tested this new unit. Well, it was the Krups Ultimate he was testing, not the Pro as I fumbled with my memory. However, that turned fortuitous. It's got alot of features included "Pro", full 4..12, and 1..3 brew cycles. The one to use is "Pro" - that brews the fastest and hottest. It also has a carafe pre-heat option, but it takes about 4.5min before the brewing starts and I don't like the idea of the coffee grinds sitting in the basket even that long. Only negatives are the carafe catches on the spring loaded basket open valve causing it not to insert smoothly and after brewing some water spills out of the dispersal head when cleaning/moving the machine. The temps do change over time with approximates being 193-194* @ 4cup, 196-197*@ 6 cups, 198*@ 10cups, and then it hits 200* above 10 cups but you can hear it mixing with some steam at the end (and remember this is at the basket outlet valve). It would be nice to have it complete under 8 minutes, but this is close enough for now.

.............

Anyway, Linens 'N Things are relieved I'm not showing up today,
dagger

Posted January 19, 2004 link

what is the exact model of proaroma?
this one? Click Here (www.amazon.com)

this one?

Click Here (www.amazon.com)

this?
http://www.aabreecoffee.com/krupproar12c.html

I'm assuming its this one?

http://www.lnt.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1355401

thanks
kel

stevee737
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: MACAP
Drip: Krups Moka
Roaster: I-Roast

Posted Mon Jan 19, 2004, 1:16pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

I use an old Krups Crystal Aroma. It barely gets up to temp. However, if I preheat by running some water through before I brew, I regularly see 200 degrees. I thouroughly preheat my espresso machine, i don't know why I used the same drip machine for 5 years before thinking of that.

dagger
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 59
Location: Fuquay Varina
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Krups Pro Aroma

Posted Mon Jan 19, 2004, 3:10pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

kel - the last link (to Linens N Things) is the one I purchased. I believe it is the same as the first and third links as well (453-71 looks like the correct model number, but I'm at work). dagger Stevee737 - that should work (running a few cups worth of just water through first) if one doesn't mind the extra time and water usage and the machine is made to handle that. However, I caution people in that many coffeepots heating elements are still very hot and pouring cold water into the reservoir can cause steam/very hot water to blow out the unit (eg., the Philips 7610 unit) as well as risk some damage to the element (too radical of cooling)!

dagger
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 59
Location: Fuquay Varina
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Krups Pro Aroma

Posted Tue Jan 27, 2004, 8:03pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

An update of sorts. Just having tooooo much fun testing coffee pots especially when I see some reviews saying how great the coffee is out of machine XYZ. So, 2 more brewers were tested from the less famous but ubiquitous brands: Black & Decker SmartBrew Deluxe DCM2700: 188* and 15m/12cups Mr. Coffee (ES11?): maybe 177* and I stopped counting Oh well, they looked nice and the B&D was actully fairly well built with some nice features. Too bad it wasn't hotter and faster. Mr. Coffee should be recalled. I saw an interesting design from Hamilton Beach - the coffee is brewed into a termal container built into the unit and you just place your cup underneath and dispense into it. But Hamilton-Beach???? The Krups is still making some decent coffee. Biggest peeve with the unit is the spring loaded basket outlet valve - it catches on the top of the carafe as you slide it in. I have to wiggle it a bit before in slides in - very inconvenient. Think I will try some thermous based units next. Cheers, dagger

slosteve
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Feb 2004
Posts: 1
Location: san luis obispo, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Feb 3, 2004, 2:48pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

I have read your test results and I'm ready to get the Krups. I called Krups and they said that the brew temp of the water is 180. I just wanted to verify that you measured 198 in the ProAroma 453-42 model. Are you still happy with your Krups. Thanks Steve

StanLvsCafe
Senior Member

Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4
Location: midwest
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Feb 4, 2004, 4:36pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

I actually went out and got this Krups. It never got over 188. Returned it and got another one. Still not over 188. Took it back. Plus there is no shower head. Just a pokey dribble of water from a hole. If you really want one these the EXPO stores (Hi end Home Depot's) are dumping these at 40 bucks each. Personally I'm still shopping. stan

dagger
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 59
Location: Fuquay Varina
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Krups Pro Aroma

Posted Thu Feb 5, 2004, 1:05pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

Stan and Steve - don't tell me I got an abnormal one and it works better than the norm - that just doesn't happen to me! Usually the opposite. If the EXPO stores are selling the same Pro model for $40 - that's half price and if they take returns is a great deal (assuming it brews hot enough). Man, you're making me even think about going out a buying another one just to test it (my wife will kill me). I'm fairly confident my digital thermometer is working correctly as the unit measures 212* in a boiling cup of water. Even if it was off the results should be relative. I'm going to order a vacuum pot next and will likely get the Bodum since it is the largest one I can find (save some "antiques" on ebay but I am leary of buying there and condition of the seal and no returns and.....). As well I might try a Newco OCS-8 thermal unit that is suppose to brew very hot (200). Hey, maybe I should put my 198 Krups on ebay ;-) ;-) Sorry if this unit is the exception rather than the norm - I by no means want to lead anyone astray. All models have some variance (eg. Capresso's), and some more than others. Cheers, dagger

dagger
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 59
Location: Fuquay Varina
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Krups Pro Aroma

Posted Thu Feb 5, 2004, 9:21pm Subject: Re: Drip coffee makers failures - need a real 200* machine quick!

and Stan, you're right on the shower head. The majority I've tried have a simple, single spray hole. A couple had more (talking about cone filter units - most basket units have a multi-outlet showerhead due to necessity of design) including my old Braun which was controled by the brew strength control knob. One had a slot design which I thought was fairly clever for a cone-shaped filter box. Even so, the multi-hole shower heads don't work that completely and consistently at least for the few that I've watched in action. dagger

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