steven_meyer Senior Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 250 Location: San Bruno Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: mahlkonig vario Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2008, 2:59pm Subject: Re: It is all in the paddle...so they say.
Just got back from BlueBottle Cafe. One word, out of this world! Ok, that's four words, but you get the idea. This is like no coffee house I've been to before. A Pastry chef! you gotta be kidding me!
All I can say is the place was slammed, there was a line out the door and a fairly good wait. I had a S.O. espresso(Camocim Bourbon) that was really good. I must say this however, Even though the place was a madhouse, the barista tossed two shots before he was satisfied with the third. He did this quietly and gracefully enough that nobody even noticed.
I saw the siphon bar and it was fun watching it in action. And from my viewpoint it looked as if the majority of the people where trying out this Twilight Zone coffee. And I over heard very good comments from some of the customers who had this coffee.
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2008, 8:07pm Subject: Re: It is all in the paddle...so they say.
I got to visit Blue Bottle Cafe today. The Siphon bar is amazing to watch. In the left photo James places a flask with grounds on top of the bottom glass globe filled with hot water which is heated by the lamps. The water vapor pressure forces the hot water up the funnel into the upper flask where the coffee is brewed. Notice in middle photo that there is no hot water left in the right bottom globe. It is all in the upper flask brewing the coffee. The halogen lamp heater is turned off and a vacuum is formed in the lower glass globe which siphons the brewed coffee back down into the lower globe (photo on right). Very interesting to watch. I didn't get to try the coffee. It was super busy at Blue Bottle cafe.
One word: Ebay. I have bought several there, and they weren't that expensive. Sometimes you just have to keep looking. I don't know if there are any there right now, and if I did I wouldn't post them, as that would be against Coffeegeek protocol.
I paid a visit to the new Blue Bottle today. On my way in I saw James Freeman, who was leaving. After learning that he was illegally parked (I thought I had a corner on that sort of thing) and that taking his space was not likely to save me a ticket, I asked him why the device I was going in to look at cost $20,000. His comment was something to the effect that the cost issue was overblown. Apparently the reporter asked him what the whole rather impressive-looking setup cost. Thinking it over, and factoring in the cost of the ice-drip apparatus, the burners, the sneeze guard, the installation and the 75 or so backup Hario pots ($100-150 apiece is my guess), he threw out a ballpark number of $20,000. This then became the story reported on the Continent and points east as the "$20,000 cup of coffee".
The place was busy. I successfully feigned nonchalance when asked for $10.85 for my pot of Sidamo DP, and sat down, fortuitously, right in front of The Apparatus. The theatre is impressive indeed. I want one of those things and I will likely strongly consider one for our next store. I may even fashion one to upgrade our existing Octagon location, where the Clover is overwhelmed by demand.
There were many things that caused some concern. Number one, the wait was almost 25 minutes, in which time I saw perhaps 5 pots go out. That struck me as excessive. Also, I think too much has been made of the bamboo paddle and stirring technique. I didn't get the impression that the two bartenders were exercising any particular skill. I may have missed that one, though. The price also seemed high, for $1.00 worth of ingredient cost, and a higher than average labor cost. Lastly, and this was the real kicker, the coffee was only good. I expected (hoped, is more accurate) to be floored. I wasn't. I place the blame for this specifically on the New York Times and generally on the culture of hype that surrounds our industry sometimes. I imagine that while it's great to have the publicity and the consequent lines of customers, James might concur with me on this last point. There is a pitfall in unrealistic expectations. This is vacuum coffee, afterall, such as any self-respecting CoffeeGeek would make at home, and that many of us grew up with.
The service was quick, attentive and professional. The lavender and sea salt "pairing" caramels were really good. The experience was great. I'll be going back. For regular old espresso. And the remarkable spectacle of the siphon bar. It's a bit like a Corvette that way. A fun car to watch someone else drive.
By the way, there was a lot more going on. Single origin espresso, a manual San Marco, some food and a drip bar. I just went there for the siphon bar, so that's all I paid much attention to.
James, I hope I didn't offend with this commentary. I very much enjoyed meeting you, and I loved the new store. You deserve all your success. I'm glad you enjoyed Lulu's at the Octagon. Do ask for me next time you're in. I'd love to buy you a drink and chat some more.
I paid a visit to the new Blue Bottle today.... Lastly, and this was the real kicker, the coffee was only good. I expected (hoped, is more accurate) to be floored. I wasn't. I place the blame for this specifically on the New York Times and generally on the culture of hype that surrounds our industry sometimes. I imagine that while it's great to have the publicity and the consequent lines of customers, James might concur with me on this last point. There is a pitfall in unrealistic expectations. This is vacuum coffee, afterall, such as any self-respecting CoffeeGeek would make at home, and that many of us grew up with.
Thanks for the review. It sounds like if I buy a Behmor and a vacuum pot, I can be in coffee nirvana, or close to it - and all for less than $400 - $299 Behmor + ~$100(?) vacuum pot - as opposed to $10,000+.
I'm glad to hear that the $20K figure for the siphon bar is a bit innacurate since you can get a virtually identical setup for so much less (even if it is minus the halogen light).
I went on Sunday (see my bigger review on manseekingcoffee.com). Manthri's right. There is a lot going on here at this cafe that never made it into all the various articles which is really too bad. This place has so much to offer everyone from the person who wants a quick cup of dripped coffee in the morning to people looking to blow a huge chunk of money for a truly amazing coffee experience.
As far as the siphon bar itself, the fact that there is one barista dedicated to making the siphon though is impressive. That's a lot of attention to one skillset and could make a difference over time. I saw him working on his stirring. For one of the pots - I lost track but I don't think it was mine - he got really excited and started showing everyone else the grounds. When I asked him about it, he talked about the grounds looking like a mountain - that was the goal. I'm curious how much this contributes to better coffee but it makes sense to a point - you need to stir a drip cup or press pot grounds as well to release the oils.
My sense is that they still need to work out a few kinks and there's the fact that I think all the press, while great for the operation, may have caught them all by surprise and has them scrambling. If you can hold yourself back, and time it right, you might want to wait a week or two, or at least hit them mid week and not on a weekend.
Paddling helps for complete saturation, I think. Maybe how you paddle controls the saturation but I don't know. I've always stirred my Yama with a chopstick.
It does look like a bunch of Harios over halogen light heat sources. One of the article links says $20,000 for the set up is an exaggeration.
Good reports on the Blue Bottle Siphon pots! Man I'd like to visit their shop some time. You know while the paddle routine may have been partially debunked, anytime someone preparing anything is keenly involved in the process, a better product emerges!
My mind gets going on Rube Goldberg coffee brewing devices I must admit. A Brownian Motion Friction Pot for instance or a three story drip machine encased in a glass housing on the exterior of a building with steam released at the top condensing to exactly 200 degree water droplets as it falls down the tube and strikes the coffee.......
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
![GaryH: Blue_Bottle_Cafe4a.jpg](javascript:ImagePopup("/images/37121/Blue_Bottle_Cafe4a.jpg", 970, 485, "GaryH: Blue_Bottle_Cafe4a.jpg");)
= No New Posts since last visit 