missy_ Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 54 Location: Waiting for the next cup Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 8:53am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Netphilosopher Said:
Missy, the links you provided are just a fancy way of doing cold brew coffee.
Most cold brew comments are "acid free", "smoother", "not harsh", "different flavor than any coffee", "reduced acidity", "low pH". These are basically code for "incomplete extraction."
and one of the articles he wrote that kicked off some discussion of the whole "cold" vs "hot", "brewing method" vs. "beverage state" and brewing iced coffee with an AeroPress: "Aeropress Iced Coffee"
Netphilosopher, thank you for the education and for the links. :) That was some very interesting reading! :^D Thank you for explaining the terminology as well.
I see that my Amazon links were linking to traditional "cold brew" drip machines, so thank you for correcting my mistake. My link referencing "how to flash brew iced coffee in your drip pot" was a link to a George Howell article. :D And also about using a Chemex, that was covered in Mark Prince's article as well when he linked to Counter Culture Coffee's Peter Guiliano - in that URL the Chemex was mentioned.
There is a lot to learn with all of the terminology and intricacies of cold coffee, "iced coffee," "flash brewed," and cold brewing. It isn't as simple as I thought! It seems I am always learning something new on Coffee Geek! :o
The Aeropress method looks fascinating, and brewing a cup of americano has my mouth watering. Thanks, Netphilosopher and Mark Prince!
Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager
Been using his method for the last few weeks. Really delicious results.
However, I am super confused about something. With brewing over ice you don't use nearly as much hot water required to make a normal hot brew, and then you are diluting that with almost a third of the entire volume in ice.
How does it make sense then, that people will claim other dilution methods (such as the water left in the bottom of a siphon when not brewing full capacity) do not produce a properly extracted cup?
By pouring so little through the grounds, isn't there a lot of good stuff still left on them when you finish the pour? I don't get it.
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 2:17pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
EvanOz85 Said:
Been using his method for the last few weeks. Really delicious results.
However, I am super confused about something. With brewing over ice you don't use nearly as much hot water required to make a normal hot brew, and then you are diluting that with almost a third of the entire volume in ice.
How does it make sense then, that people will claim other dilution methods (such as the water left in the bottom of a siphon when not brewing full capacity) do not produce a properly extracted cup?
By pouring so little through the grounds, isn't there a lot of good stuff still left on them when you finish the pour? I don't get it.
The difference is between strength and extraction.
The brew method (grind level, temperature, contact time) primarily govern extraction (how much of the coffee you extract). The brew ratio (ratio of coffee to water) governs end strength.
You can extract fairly properly for a pretty wide range of brew ratio, with a tendency to underextract as the brew ratio increases (because the actual contact temperature drops more during brewing due to the higher ratio of ambient temperature grounds with the hot water).
I brew higher strength with the AeroPress all the time, and dilute to normal drinking strength. Cups of coffee prepared that way vs. brewed end strength are pretty much indistinguishable if they are the same strength (%TDS).
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Daniel437 Senior Member Joined: 20 Apr 2012 Posts: 15 Location: Berlin Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2012, 7:23am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
I would only use cold brew if stomach problems prevented me from handling the acid in warm-brewed coffee. Cold brew can be more convenient though if you store it as a concentrate, but the idea of pulling coffee out of the fridge never sounded particularly appetizing to me.
missy_ Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 54 Location: Waiting for the next cup Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2012, 1:21pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Daniel437 Said:
I would only use cold brew if stomach problems prevented me from handling the acid in warm-brewed coffee. Cold brew can be more convenient though if you store it as a concentrate, but the idea of pulling coffee out of the fridge never sounded particularly appetizing to me.
I live in a hot climate, so that is why it appealed to me. :) I still want to give it a try at some point and compare it with the "flash brew" methods discussed and taste the difference.
Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager
BurntMango Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Land of Enchantment Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012, 7:22pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
If you're like many (including myself) who feel icky after chugging a ton of acids and extracts in a typical cup of coffee, cold brew is definitely the superior method. It's still tasty, less bitter, and much easier on the stomach. Preparing it is also more economical and environmentally friendly than buying a new coffee machine every so often. Cold brew is even reported to dramatically cut your intake of the cholesterol-raising compounds associated with hot-brew coffee.
If you consider cold-brewing, don't get suckered into buying an expensive carafe setup, either! A couple of mason jars with a funnel and paper filters works just as well.
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012, 7:27pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
about being able to stomach it, i used to be one of those people that had "stomach" issues when i drank coffee. even just one cup used to really mess me up and i'd be in the restroom taking care of business for a while. :P
now...i can drink tons of coffee without issue. im thinking my body adjusted to it. i wonder if it has anything to do with the way that i eat now. ive become a very low carb eater for the last 1.5 years and decided to start drinking coffee because it's one of the few flavored drinks that is fine for me to drink.
FairlyOptimistic Senior Member Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Location: CT Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Aeropress Drip: B&D "Brew 'N Go"
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 10:42am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
I'm sold on the benefits of cold brew but can't seem get the ratio quite right - I'm away at school and don't have a freezer so I can't dilute the brew with ice and end up getting this unreasonably strong drink. What would be the adjustment factor so that I could get a normal cup of coffee?
Chang94598 Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 208 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 12:45pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Cold brew can be like hot brew coffee, using full immersion or drip method. Similarly, French press, Abid, or specialized Tiamo or Hario devices can be used.
For home, the Hario Pota or Tiamo HG2604 may be more suitable, due to more compact size. I use another cold drip device from Iwaki, with recipe of 50g coffee in approximately 500g water.
The cold drip method does preserve the terrior flavor of coffee. In fact, because the bitters are less extracted, the beans can be roasted light. At least in my experience, the typical dry processed berry aroma of Ethiopian coffee is quite pronounced.
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 4:42pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Chang94598 Said:
Cold brew can be like hot brew coffee, using full immersion or drip method. Similarly, French press, Abid, or specialized Tiamo or Hario devices can be used.
For home, the Hario Pota or Tiamo HG2604 may be more suitable, due to more compact size. I use another cold drip device from Iwaki, with recipe of 50g coffee in approximately 500g water.
The cold drip method does preserve the terrior flavor of coffee. In fact, because the bitters are less extracted, the beans can be roasted light. At least in my experience, the typical dry processed berry aroma of Ethiopian coffee is quite pronounced.
I haven't found this to be the case, but like all coffee, YMMV.
I just was playing around with my new refractometer and brewing cold vs. normal brews. One of them was an Ethiopia Yirg (not DP), roasted about 15 seconds BEFORE 2C - a fairly light roast for me.
Cold brewed and diluted to 1.2% and brought to 130°F, VERY faint berry flavor. Some weird sort-of instant coffee flavor also. No brightness. Aroma was fairly flat - like Colombia mainstream coffee. A faint taste of walnut at the finish with a hint of cocoa. The grounds, however, were wonderfully fragrant...
Normal brewed? Awesome, zippy cup of black currant and blueberry popping at the beginning, with a much more interesting sweetness through the cup - which surprised me (because cold brewing is supposed to be so much "sweeter"). Aroma was a wonderful bouquet of berries. Great mild overtone of dark chocolate at the end of the sip.
Cold brewing may preserve SOME of the terroir, but when compared back to back with a normal brew - there is no contest in my mind. Freshly roasted high quality coffee is WAY different cold brewed vs more normal brewed. It's up to the consumer to determine one is superior to the other or if they are just "different".
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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