Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 5:45pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
Thanks for calling me out Netp. My basis of espresso strength was based on MojoToGo. It has a normale preset preference of 10% TDS. When I calculated the mass for a double it did seem VERY high, but I went with it. I haven't studied or played with espresso since '94. But back then I was pulling ristrettos without knowing that's what I was doing and loving them. I'm definitely not a, let alone the, let alone TheEspressoScientist, just theCoffeeScientist. 8) I don't always think to mention that but I try.
So, to readjust, espresso (by Netp's analyses) is about 5+% TDS, coffee is about 1.25% TDS.
It's a shame Vac-pots are such a pain in the ass to clean or that I'm that lazy.
I am, I guess 8( , a coffee SNOB. The only shops I will get an espresso based drink use Synesso Hydras (not a requirement, just happens to be), the best roasted coffee in the area (Ozo, Novo and Conscious) and have professional, well trained baristas. Don't care or look down on people that go to shops I wouldn't EVER step foot in to get one and would accompany a friend that wanted to, but would never buy a shot from them.
Now I'm going to take my refractometer down to Ozo and measure their TDS. I'm suddenly super curious!!!
(MojoToGo also has a ristretto preset preference of 13% TDS. Calculate that basket size!)
jpender Senior Member Joined: 11 Jul 2011 Posts: 406 Location: California Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Kyocera CM-50 Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 6:07pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
Illy details a typical espresso at about 5%. In contrast, Andy Shecter has posted that his are around 10%. So maybe it comes down to who you are averaging over, chain stores or coffee aficianados.
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 7:01pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
jpender Said:
Illy details a typical espresso at about 5%. In contrast, Andy Shecter has posted that his are around 10%. So maybe it comes down to who you are averaging over, chain stores or coffee aficianados.
Agreed, the aficionados that I know are at 10%-13%, rather than 5%.
One example of this is found in a post by James Hoffmann: his espresso shots, pulled at a 65% brewing ratio, "properly" extracted, end up at least 12% strength.
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 10:05pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
Yeah, but I don't know about that Andy guy. I mean, have you seen his pictures?!?! Hahahahahaha, LOL, jus' jokin'!
Actually, I did go out and hit up a couple shops and refracted on their espresso. One shop (I don't buy their shots, not well trained baristas) had a TDS of 7.25% and Ozo (I LOVE!) was out of the range of my refractometer, which means it's over 9.99%. That was a normale and an 18g dose.
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 8:25am Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
A lot of the discrepancy is in the definition of the shot. Most places call it "volume" which includes crema.
Crema has a TON of variation. That's the one thing I have noticed with *$s - crema is fairly low, on the order of 15ml or less on a double (which weigh around 60g). So, their produced volume must have been more like 70-90ml, dropping to around 60ml as the crema subsides.
There isn't a standard. All I did was report what I've seen - rare is the 25ml shot (including crema) from 7g of coffee that's 65% crema by volume and weighs 9g. (and well over 14% strength)
Andy - would you classify your "typical" shot as a ristretto or a normal?
jpender: is Illy specifying the produced beverage as a combination of a crema emulsion AND liquid together as a volume, or does he actually call it "grams" of mass?
Makes a noticeable difference.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
What would this typical shot occupy in volume, including crema? Maybe 35ml?
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 7:56pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
Gregr Said:
As I look forward to my soon to arrive vacuum pot I've been wondering- will the new brewer highlight varietal flavors as much as an espresso machine does? It's apples to oranges I know... How about the question in the title- what brewing method would you use to get the most out of your coffee bean?
For me, for a regular cup of coffee it would be a toss up between a gold filtered Clever or a French Press.
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
If the beans are fresh, the volume is higher. If the portafilter is bottomless, the volume is higher. If the beans contain robusta, the volume is higher. If you wait a few seconds before measuring, the volume is lower. If your pour runs down the side of the cup, the volume is lower.
I concluded some years ago that talking about espresso output in volumetric units was not only futile, but it was holding back progress in espresso making. YMMV.
Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 5:29pm Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
Netphilosopher Said:
Most of my samples of espresso at *$s, Caribou and Bigbee are closer to ~5% strength. Most of the time, each SINGLE shot seems to be around 28-33 grams. The hi-volume shops typically run doubles (aka doppio) because the process is more controllable. Just like pourover single cups being a bit more sensitive to variables than brewing a full on pot of coffee.
I've also sampled some of the local specialty coffee shops, they have dabbled with some updosing and ristrettos, and will sometimes end up in the 7% range, but full 10% is a fairly rare exception for the hi-volume coffee shops. You can't go to a *$s and get more than a blank stare if you ask for a ristretto.
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