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What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
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theCoffeeScientist
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theCoffeeScientist
Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 28
Location: boulder,CO
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Livia 90, Livietta, Caffe...
Grinder: OE Lido#144, Preciso, SJ,...
Vac Pot: Yama 5c
Drip: Hario V60, BeeHouse, Chemex,...
Roaster: Quest M3 fully profiled
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 5:45pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Thanks for calling me out Netp. My basis of espresso strength was based on MojoToGo. It has a normale preset preference of 10% TDS. When I calculated the mass for a double it did seem VERY high, but I went with it. I haven't studied or played with espresso since '94. But back then I was pulling ristrettos without knowing that's what I was doing and loving them. I'm definitely not a, let alone the, let alone TheEspressoScientist,
just theCoffeeScientist. 8) I don't always think to mention that but I try.

So, to readjust, espresso (by Netp's analyses) is about 5+% TDS, coffee is about 1.25% TDS.

It's a shame Vac-pots are such a pain in the ass to clean or that I'm that lazy.

I am, I guess 8(  , a coffee SNOB. The only shops I will get an espresso based drink use Synesso Hydras (not a requirement, just happens to be), the best roasted coffee in the area (Ozo, Novo and Conscious) and have professional, well trained baristas. Don't care or look down on people that go to shops I wouldn't EVER step foot in to get one and would accompany a friend that wanted to, but would never buy a shot from them.

Now I'm going to take my refractometer down to Ozo and measure their TDS. I'm suddenly super curious!!!

(MojoToGo also has a ristretto preset preference of 13% TDS. Calculate that basket size!)

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 713
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 6:07pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Illy details a typical espresso at about 5%. In contrast, Andy Shecter has posted that his are around 10%. So maybe it comes down to who you are averaging over, chain stores or coffee aficianados.
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 860
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 7:01pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

jpender Said:

Illy details a typical espresso at about 5%. In contrast, Andy Shecter has posted that his are around 10%. So maybe it comes down to who you are averaging over, chain stores or coffee aficianados.

Posted July 11, 2012 link

Agreed, the aficionados that I know are at 10%-13%, rather than 5%.

One example of this is found in a post by James Hoffmann: his espresso shots, pulled at a 65% brewing ratio, "properly" extracted, end up at least 12% strength.

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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theCoffeeScientist
Senior Member
theCoffeeScientist
Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 28
Location: boulder,CO
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Livia 90, Livietta, Caffe...
Grinder: OE Lido#144, Preciso, SJ,...
Vac Pot: Yama 5c
Drip: Hario V60, BeeHouse, Chemex,...
Roaster: Quest M3 fully profiled
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 10:05pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Yeah, but I don't know about that Andy guy. I mean, have you seen his pictures?!?! Hahahahahaha, LOL, jus' jokin'!

Actually, I did go out and hit up a couple shops and refracted on their espresso. One shop (I don't buy their shots, not well trained baristas) had a TDS of 7.25% and Ozo (I LOVE!) was out of the range of my refractometer, which means it's over 9.99%. That was a normale and an 18g dose.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 8:25am
Subject: ...
 

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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 860
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 3:50pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Andy - would you classify your "typical" shot as a ristretto or a normal?

Posted July 12, 2012 link

It's simply custom, of course. But my typical shot, 60-62% brew ratio, is to me closer to normale than ristretto. Hence I call it a normetto. :-)

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 6:56pm
Subject: ...
 

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CoffeeRoastersClub
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,548
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 7:56pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

gregr Said:

As I look forward to my soon to arrive vacuum pot I've been wondering- will the new brewer highlight varietal flavors as much as an espresso machine does? It's apples to oranges I know...
How about the question in the title- what brewing method would you use to get the most out of your coffee bean?

Posted July 9, 2012 link

For me, for a regular cup of coffee it would be a toss up between a gold filtered Clever or a French Press.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

Bitcoin Merchant www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 860
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 9:49pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Netphilosopher Said:

So, 60% EBR means, say:

15g coffee
25g Espresso produced (15 / .6)

Strength at 20% extraction would be ~12.0%

What would this typical shot occupy in volume, including crema?  Maybe 35ml?

Posted July 12, 2012 link

The volume can be all over the place.

If the beans are fresh, the volume is higher. If the portafilter is bottomless, the volume is higher. If the beans contain robusta, the volume is higher. If you wait a few seconds before measuring, the volume is lower. If your pour runs down the side of the cup, the volume is lower.

I concluded some years ago that talking about espresso output in volumetric units was not only futile, but it was holding back progress in espresso making. YMMV.

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 860
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 5:29pm
Subject: Re: What brewing method yields the widest range of flavors?
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Most of my samples of espresso at *$s, Caribou and Bigbee are closer to ~5% strength.  Most of the time, each SINGLE shot seems to be around 28-33 grams.  The hi-volume shops typically run doubles (aka doppio) because the process is more controllable.  Just like pourover single cups being a bit more sensitive to variables than brewing a full on pot of coffee.

I've also sampled some of the local specialty coffee shops, they have dabbled with some updosing and ristrettos, and will sometimes end up in the 7% range, but full 10% is a fairly rare exception for the hi-volume coffee shops.  You can't go to a *$s and get more than a blank stare if you ask for a ristretto.

Posted July 10, 2012 link


I visited our local third wave coffee shop this afternoon and measured a couple shots. Looks like their typical "good" shot would measure about:

18 g dose
28 g beverage
12.25% TDS

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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