WonderClown Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Location: NC, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gave away a Saeco Via Veneto... Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, Zassenhaus Drip: Buchner funnel + vacuum... Roaster: WB Poppery I
Posted Sat Aug 25, 2012, 9:26am Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
Since you guys are interested in doing some controlled experimentation, I thought I'd point out an immersion brewing method that I've been using for years for my daily coffee which allows almost complete control over all the brewing parameters: grind size, brew ratio, temperature, and contact time. The only constraint is a minimum on contact time which has an inverse relationship to grind size (particularly if there are a lot of fines), but you can still get very brief contact times with very fine grinds (even poor grinds with a lot of fines -- I use a Hario MMS).
Please ignore most of my comments in this thread -- that was very early in my experimentation process, and I have learned a lot since then. Ask me for tips if you want to try for yourself. I "invented" this method, though I think the method has been independently invented by other coffee geeks over time, so I haven't applied for a patent. ;)
Posted Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:14pm Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
WonderClown Said:
Since you guys are interested in doing some controlled experimentation, I thought I'd point out an immersion brewing method that I've been using for years for my daily coffee which allows almost complete control over all the brewing parameters: grind size, brew ratio, temperature, and contact time. The only constraint is a minimum on contact time which has an inverse relationship to grind size (particularly if there are a lot of fines), but you can still get very brief contact times with very fine grinds (even poor grinds with a lot of fines -- I use a Hario MMS).
Please ignore most of my comments in this thread -- that was very early in my experimentation process, and I have learned a lot since then. Ask me for tips if you want to try for yourself. I "invented" this method, though I think the method has been independently invented by other coffee geeks over time, so I haven't applied for a patent. ;)
I don't think you can apply for a patent - well past the public disclosure date. I'd think that discussion in a public forum constitutes as public disclosure - but aside from that, vacuum percolation is one of the elements of the patent for the clover (filed in '06, IIRC).
So, I was sitting here, looking at the couple of AeroPresses, a cut-apart AP extension project, the myriad of mason-jar and makeshift cold-drip brewers ( using a gasoline funnel) I have, as well as the three auto drip coffeemakers for which I know the temperature-delivery rate and ground coffee capacity for each, and enjoying a cup of coffee from my CCD, reflecting on the moka pot I spent a few days with (and subsequently returned) and the pros and cons from the trial brewing I've done with a vac-pot, while pondering what to do with the Gaggia Synchrony Compact I rebuilt and is outside for my "garage quickie espresso"... and then it dawned on me!
I need another brewing device!
ROFLOL!
Seriously, though, I read through that thread before I joined up on CG, very impressive work. I almost built one following your guidelines, but started using the AP for grounds separation that it didn't seem like I needed to add another variable (vacuum) to the mix, since it wasn't a mainstream brewing method. Thanks for the reminder that PMC is out there.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:37pm Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
WonderClown Said:
Please ignore most of my comments in this thread -- that was very early in my experimentation process, and I have learned a lot since then. Ask me for tips if you want to try for yourself.
I've learned that Chemex filters work best (better than lab filters or other brands of paper coffee filter), and I found an adjustable circle cutter tool at a craft store that makes it easy to cut out the right size circles. I've also learned that I prefer water just barely under 205F (which drops to 195-200F when the coffee is mixed in), but that is probably influenced also by my preference for light roasted (and home-roasted) coffee, which most people seem to agree does better at higher temps than dark roasts. Lastly, get a big funnel -- my brew ratio has moved toward more and more water. I now use about 250mL brew water for 16g coffee in most cases, unless I'm specifically going for a strong coffee or espresso substitute for making faux lattes. I have also been known to use this rig to filter cold-brew coffee, and a big funnel really helps with that. Also I use a very fine grind and aim for very short contact time, and I usually don't pre-heat the funnel anymore -- the temperature drop when I pour the slurry into the funnel is helpful to slow down extraction during filtering, which is longer than I'd like because my grinder produces a lot of fines. I go back and forth on pre-heating the funnel, though -- in part it depends on what coffee I'm brewing. (I like to get higher extraction from really light roasts, less from medium roasts, and much less from dark roasts.)
I also bought an electric vacuum pump on eBay after breaking my second hand pump (and getting a bit tired of having to pump by hand anyway). By the way, in a pinch -- human lungs can pull enough of a vacuum to make this rig work quite well. I had to do that for a while after breaking those hand pumps. It's actually easier than the hand pump, I'd say. (Seal the end of the tube with your tongue once you've pulled the vacuum, so you don't have to keep sucking on it the entire time.)
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 6:57am Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
Glad to see so much discussion on this thread again. I still use my Aeropress almost everyday, along with the Mypressi Twist. I use the inverted method, but now with the Coava/ABLE metal DISK. The funny thing about the DISK is that I like the original one better than the newer one with finer holes.
I tried to cram two scoops of coffee into the Aeropress for the longest time, but finally went to one scoop based on Alan's advice long ago. I would definitely welcome a larger Aeropress to allow for a larger cup of coffee, and for when I have guests.
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 9:07pm Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
CaptainCowPie Said:
Glad to see so much discussion on this thread again. I still use my Aeropress almost everyday, along with the Mypressi Twist. I use the inverted method, but now with the Coava/ABLE metal DISK. The funny thing about the DISK is that I like the original one better than the newer one with finer holes.
I tried to cram two scoops of coffee into the Aeropress for the longest time, but finally went to one scoop based on Alan's advice long ago. I would definitely welcome a larger Aeropress to allow for a larger cup of coffee, and for when I have guests.
At the World AeroPress championship (April 2012 in Portland) I asked Tim Varney, who runs AeroPress championships all over the world, if they allow metal filters. He said yes, but no metal filter has ever won a heat. Each heat has three entrants and their brews are judged solely on taste.
Noticed that. Several months ago, I was doing some data mining, looking at all the "winning" recipes for classifying and looking at common brew parameters. I figured that since these were same brew method, blind(ish) taste tests, they'd be excellent ways to point the way to mapping out an AeroPress' sweet spot.
Duplicating many of the recipes was one of the things that made it obvious to me that the traditional "extraction yield" method of measuring extraction percentage wasn't correct for the AeroPress nor the other immersion methods. Pretty much every other duplicated recipe in my kitchen had an extraction yield or brew-chart calculated extraction percentage solidly in the underextracted range (about 15% to 17%).
The other surprising thing was the fairly large range in strength, but fairly tight range in extraction.
But don't just take my word for it, the winning recipes are all posted on the world aeropress championship website. If just for a good time in understanding how many variations there are on this seemingly simple device, it's a great way to try out "known good" recipes.
It was also surprising how many of the "winning" recipes were inverted. ;^D (Alan, I know you're not a fan, just pokin' fun with you!)
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 5:26am Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
Well, to be fair, the "no metal filter has ever won a heat" bit is only meaningful to the extent that people have actually been competing with metal filters in comparable numbers (I'm assuming not).
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 8:29am Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
jbviau Said:
Well, to be fair, the "no metal filter has ever won a heat" bit is only meaningful to the extent that people have actually been competing with metal filters in comparable numbers (I'm assuming not).
if i were in a competition to win, i'd want to put my best foot forward no matter what. to me, this is a strong sign that metal filters make poorer aeropress drinks than paper filters. and it is a DEFINITE sign that the competitors think so, (or they would have used metal).
fwiw, i also have a metal filter for my aeropress and am perfectly happy with it. so my comments above are my "scientist-brain" speaking. it's hard to ignore data like that.
i use my metal filter about half the time compared to paper.
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 8:39am Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
AlanAdler Said:
At the World AeroPress championship (April 2012 in Portland) I asked Tim Varney, who runs AeroPress championships all over the world, if they allow metal filters. He said yes, but no metal filter has ever won a heat. Each heat has three entrants and their brews are judged solely on taste.
I know there was a lot of talk about filters that let the oils through, specifically polyester, in the past. I used the polyester filters for some time until they released the metal filter. I still prefer to have the oils in my cup, but I do have to wonder why a metal filter has never won. All the more reason to experiment just a little bit more. ;)
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