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AlanAdler
Senior Member
AlanAdler
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 711
Location: Palo Alto, Calif
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: AeroPress
Grinder: Baratza - Virtuoso
Roaster: Fresh Roast SR-500
Posted Sun Aug 19, 2012, 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

andys Said:

This afternoon I tried making a batch to test out your assertion:

Steeped a long time, with gentle occasional stirring
Pressed very gently (this took two full minutes)

Posted August 19, 2012 link

I wrote "So, my current thinking is that high extraction is not detrimental to flavor if the brewing temperature and time are not excessive."  (empahsis added)

In my experiments, the only variable was fineness of grind.  I never steeped beyond the standard ten-second stir, and press time never exceeded one minute.  I think the increased extraction with the finer grinds was due to their presenting more exposed surface area to the water.  The stress on the ground coffee was relatively constant, except for a slight increase in press time as the grinds got finer.

Alan
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 5:05am
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 5:10am
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jbviau
Senior Member
jbviau
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 734
Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Preciso / LIDOs
Drip: Trifecta MB / Eva Solo...
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 11:43am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

jbviau Said:

Oh, well if upgrades are on the table, how about adding a little Trifecta-style check valve on the bottom to eliminate premature drip-through and render the inverted method obsolete? ;)

Posted August 18, 2012 link

Netphilosopher Said:

That would be the AeroPress steep-and-press.  Like a CCD steep and release but the brewer is an AeroPress.

Posted August 18, 2012 link

To the extent that inverted brewing in the Aeropress = nothing more than that, sure. But I'm not convinced you're right; there's that pesky "press" factor, for example.

AlanAdler Said:

As I've often written, normal drip-through does not make a difference in the strength or flavor of the brew.  I invite you to try two pressings:

Normal 2-scoops

Inverted 2-scoops

Let me know if you think either if better.

Best,

Alan

Posted August 19, 2012 link

Informally, I agree drip-through doesn't cause taste problems IF you're brewing with a paper filter AND either grinding finely with a quick steep OR using the plunger (insert, then pull back slightly) to keep drippage in check. However, not everyone Aeropresses this way. For instance, metal filters are popular. About those, even with the Able DISK Fine (which is pretty fine-gauge) I get more drip-through than I'd like (yes, tastewise) unless I invert or grind more finely than usual.

Which brings me to a "grind issue." Maybe I'm revealing my ignorance here, but I don't think anyone is going to argue that using a coarser grind and steeping longer in the Aeropress is 100% equivalent in terms of cup quality to what you get when you go with a finer grind and shorter steep time. The former is a gentler extraction that some might prefer--hence (I assume) the appeal of the inverted method. At least that's why *I* like it.

Anyway, it's in this spirit that I half-jokingly proposed adding a check valve. Thanks for your participation in this thread!
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nroot
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Modded Hario Mini-Mill Slim
Drip: Aeropress, Bodum
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Hi,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've recently switched from brewing with a press pot to the aeropress, partly because I brew at work and love the ease of cleanup, and partly because I'm intrigued by how easily you can manipulate the process/variables. I'm finding this thread a bit difficult to navigate (I made it through around 30 pages and had to stop), so I apologize if the following questions have been hashed out elsewhere in the thread.


I've been messing with as many variables as I can, and thus far I've settled on this brew method as my favorite:

Invert method, paper filter (not sure I even need to invert with paper judging from these posts?)
15g of coffee @ 15 declicks on a modded HMMS
100g brew water @ 205 F
30 second pour, stir, wait 30 seconds, press for 25 seconds (aiming for 1:30 total contact time)
Dilute with 100g hot water

I started with a finer grind and shorter steep, but I found that the above method for me seemed to highlight the varietal characteristics of the cup a bit more, which is what I'm looking to get out of the thing (specifically the berry notes of a DP Sidamo, because it's my favorite flavor in coffee).


Now, I'm a complete amateur at this, but shouldn't I be able to get a similar flavor profile with a finer grind, by altering some other variables? How come I'm losing the berry notes when I go to a finer grind and a shorter steep (e.g. 9 declicks, 45s brew + 25s press)? Even with the HMMS mods, I feel 15 declicks is giving me some inconsistent grind sizes, so I would imagine that if I could reproduce the extraction of my favored method using a finer grind, that I'd get a more consistent cup, right?


Also, if there's a different ratio/grind/steep combination I could be using to get even more varietal flavor out, I'd love to keep experimenting!
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dagoat
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 321
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

You sound unsure and seeking guidance, altough it's hard to tell for sure online--Have you tried it the way it says on the package?  The inventor, (Alan Adler), went to great effort in blind taste testing trials to develop and refnine that method, and I personally have not found a better tasting recipe myself, (taste being subjective and all).

-Peter
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nroot
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Modded Hario Mini-Mill Slim
Drip: Aeropress, Bodum
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 3:45pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

dagoat Said:

You sound unsure and seeking guidance, altough it's hard to tell for sure online--Have you tried it the way it says on the package?  The inventor, (Alan Adler), went to great effort in blind taste testing trials to develop and refnine that method, and I personally have not found a better tasting recipe myself, (taste being subjective and all).

-Peter

Posted August 24, 2012 link

The guidance I'm specifically seeking is some insight into how grind size, steep time, and extraction interact. Obviously to maintain a certain extraction, grind size and steep time will have an inverse relationship, but I'm curious if anyone (looking at you Netphilosopher ;)) has looked at the constants/multipliers involved. For example, suppose I start with 14 declicks mod HMMS @ 1:30 contact time. Now suppose I tighten the grind to 7 declicks. If I want my extraction to remain the same, does my contact time also halve to 45 seconds? I think the answer is probably no, and I'm wondering what the curve looks like.


As for the default instructions, yes I've tried them, and I don't like them at all. I did the following experiment with the default instructions when I was playing around with different brew methods:

  1. Brew three coffees (DP Harrar at Full City, DP Sidamo at Full City, Aged Sumatra at ?? - probably Full City+) using the instructions on the package (the instructions weren't precise, but I used 20g coffee @ 7 declicks on mod HMMS, 175 degree brew water to #2 circle, ~10s pour time, 10s steep/stir time, 25s press).
  2. Label the bottom of three identical mugs, wait for them to cool, have friend serve them to me in random order.

I could pick out the Sumatra, but I could not tell the difference between the Harrar and Sidamo. The coffee was clean but very uninteresting - if you'd asked me to guess totally blind, I'd have labeled the African DPs as Costa Rican or a Columbian WPs. Ouch.

I repeated the experiment with the process I used above, and I could easily pick out the three varietals. The Harrar let out some hints of lemon and berry, and the Sidamo had huge berry and melon. The finish of the Sidamo and Harrar were also quite different - lingering berry (maybe strawberry?) in the Sidamo and a much stronger chocolate for the Harrar.



I'm satisfied with the method I use now, but, e.g., a few months back I had a pourover of a Rwandan coffee at Intelligentsia that blew me away - it almost tasted as if lemon herbal tea had been mixed with the coffee. I would love to be able to get that much of the "non-coffee" flavors out at home.
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 6:22pm
Subject: ...
 

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nroot
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Modded Hario Mini-Mill Slim
Drip: Aeropress, Bodum
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 9:05pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Netphilosopher Said:

 15 declicks is great for about 2-3 minute steep for inverted AeroPress at first, but after wear the grind inconsistency comes on.

Posted August 24, 2012 link


Right, so this is where I'm at - I'm starting to get fines again. My thought is, take your recipie, for example, which actually looks pretty similar to what I'm doing. Now keeping the water temp and brew ratio constant, suppose you change the grind to 9 declicks. If you could alter the brew time to keep a 20% extraction, would you be getting a better cup because the fines are closer in size to the actual grind?


This is sort of what I'm looking for: the correct brew time at finer grinds. It makes sense that the shape of the time vs extraction curve is exponential, but what is the shape of the grind size vs brew-time-to-20%-extraction curve?


In my example I suppose the ideal graph would be #-of-declicks vs brew-time-to-20%-extraction, but even just a general idea of what a curve like that would look like would help narrow down the ranges in which I should experiment.
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Aug 25, 2012, 9:08am
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