Posted Fri Sep 28, 2012, 5:56am Subject: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
I am thinking about purchasing a drip station to make multiple coffees. I have been using a pour over dripper for a while now but I am still trying to figure out what the proper amount of grinds to use is best. I know 30g is ideal for a 14oz cup. what about a medium or an extra large?
Has anyone found a good drip ratio?
If 14 oz requires 30g of grounds then a 10oz cup would require 21g. Is this a good starting point?
+1. I think that 30g for 14oz is a bit of an updose. The ratio I use is 1:16 measuring everything in weight -- close to but a little higher than 60g: 1L if we take 1L = 1000g -- but the 60 number is an excellent starting point to work from.
Posted Fri Sep 28, 2012, 10:03am Subject: Re: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
Thx guys! :)
So for a 400ml cup (13.5oz) 25g of coffee grounds is what I got. That's right on the money. :) Thx again! This means I can get roughly 16 large cups out of a pound.
Posted Fri Sep 28, 2012, 10:57am Subject: Re: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
You're welcome!
I think that's about right; maybe even 17 or 18. And by all means, experiment with dose. The 1:16 works beautifully for my taste buds, but other folks will disagree.
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 7:11am Subject: Re: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
It depends.
What strength do you like?
What's the absorption for your method (it varies). You'll be confused if you mix units.
14oz cup is going to be around 400g of HOT coffee (and occupies 415ish ml).
Typical pourovers have an absorption of 2.2-2.4, some drip range (depending on the auto drip machine) between 1.7 (for my BCM-4C) to 2.05 (for my friend's Bunn) to 2.15 (for an old 12 "cup" Black and Decker auto drip).
So, if you want to target 20% extraction at 1.25% strength, and your pourover absorption is typical 2.3:
R = (0.20 / .0125) + 2.3 = 18.3
If you like it stronger (1.40%):
R = (0.20 / .014) + 2.3 = 16.6
This means you'll have to use 16.6 X 30g of brew water to get desired 400g of hot coffee (which will occupy somewhere around 14 fluid oz of volume when hot).
You're expressing your ratio in Yield ratio, much like espresso. The difference is the absorption.
Y = Produced Coffee / Brew Coffee = Brew Ratio - Absorption [Y = R - A]
In your first case, Y = 400g:30g = 13.3, and if your absorption for pourover is typical, your actual water brew ratio is about 15.3 - 15.4.
In the revised case, Y = 400:25 = 16, and your water brew ratio is about 18.3-18.4.
The 60g/liter is the coffee brew ratio: and since it's in metric that's the same thing as saying 6% coffee brew ratio, or a water brew ratio of about 16.7 (assuming the water volume is done at room(ish) temperature), so if you care about the brewing control charts, you're technically updosing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, some people love coffee at 1.5% strength all day long.
On this chart http://www.mountaincity.com/brewing-2.html You'd be following the line around 65g/liter for 30g - so you'd be right around the word "Strong" on the chart if you extract at 20% (AND provided your brewing method absorption is around 2.0). The range shown is the European standard which is stronger than US (but the US chart has messed up units that are a PITA to keep track of).
Keep in mind that the brewing control charts (if you assume the brew water recommended is measured at room(ish) temperature) are created with an absorption assumed to be right around 2.0 - 2.08, so your actual yield may vary.
At 25g and same yield, you'd be pretty much on the 55g/liter line - that's same thing as saying 5.5% coffee brew ratio, or water brew ratio of around 18.2, and pretty much on the recommended SCAA brewing chart:
right around the 104.5g line (per 1.9 liter - see why the US chart is so messed up? LOL ). This passes through the 20% extraction/1.25% strength region on the brewing control chart.
Always keep in mind that as you change the amount of coffee (if you don't change the amount of brew water) your yield will vary because of the absorption.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 1:57pm Subject: Re: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
I'm sorry but this is very confusing. I am refering to manual drip process.
Looking at the SCAA chart here: http://www.mountaincity.com/brewing-1.html It says 20% extraction, 1.25 TDS. 131g of drip ground coffee and 1.9L of hot water will give me ideal optimum balanced flavour.
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 5:22am Subject: Re: Drip/ pour over coffee to water ratio
Burner0000 Said:
I'm sorry but this is very confusing. I am refering to manual drip process.
Looking at the SCAA chart here: http://www.mountaincity.com/brewing-1.html It says 20% extraction, 1.25 TDS. 131g of drip ground coffee and 1.9L of hot water will give me ideal optimum balanced flavour.
The units are really confusing - that's why I like ratios better.
If you look at the center point of the "ideal" area, this is 1.25% TDS and 20% extraction - and the line is somewhere between 106g and 99g per 1.9liters. This whole chart has a number that you don't know about - it's called "absorption", and it's assumed to be the same for all drip brewing.
This term is necessary to determine how much actual yield you get from the original ingredients. They just assume a constant and construct this entire chart based on that assumption - and everything shifts if your brew method is slightly different.
First - we'll change everything to mass, and since we're talking about ingredients in, the ingredients are grams of brew coffee and grams of brew water. Around room temperature, 1.9 liters = 1900 grams.
In this centerpoint case (which is the black line at right around 104.5g per 1.9liters):
Brew Water = 1900g Brew Coffee = 104.5g
What the chart doesn't tell you is what you actually get in the pot. In the end after brewing, you get:
Wet Spent Grounds = 313.5g (approximately) Coffee in the Pot = 1691g (approximately)
and assuming you didn't lose anything significant during brewing. Furthermore, if you extracted at 20%, the end strength in the cup will be 1.25% TDS.
BUT the actual ratios (the stuff that can be scaled) are:
Water Brew Ratio: 1900/104.5 ~ 18.2 ~ 18.2 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee or the inverse, coffee brew ratio = 104.5/1900 = 0.055 = 5.5%, or 5.5 parts brew coffee to 100 parts brew water.
However, you're interested in the yield - and this isn't part of the chart. The chart is in terms of INPUT ingredients.
The yield ratio is how much coffee beverage you get as a function of how much coffee you used:
Yield ratio = 1691g / 104.5g = approximately 16.2 grams of coffee beverage per gram of brew coffee.
So, if you want 400g of coffee beverage, you need 400g / 16.2 ~24.7g or about 25g. You'll need about 450g of brew water with that 25g of brew coffee to get 400g of coffee beverage in the cup.
In your case:
Brew Water = 450g Brew Coffee = 25g
and you get:
Wet Spent Grounds = 75g Coffee Beverage = 400g
and your ratios are basically like the centerpoint:
Water brew ratio = 450/25 ~ 18 Coffee brew ratio (the inverse of water brew ratio) = 25/450 = 1 / 18 = approximately 0.0555 or about 5.56%
and your Yield ratio:
Coffee Beverage / Brew Coffee = 400 / 25 = 16.
It's off a little bit because we rounded up from 24.7g of coffee.
This ALL makes the assumption that the wet grounds will be about 3 times the brew coffee mass when brewing is complete (this is where "absorption" comes in). Use less coffee, and the wet grounds weigh less - use more coffee and the wet grounds weigh more, INDEPENDENT of how much brew water you put through the grounds. I've found many manual pourovers trend toward the wet grounds weighing more like 3.3 times the brew coffee mass - and this may change some of the brew chart and will definitely change the yield.
(Click for larger image)
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Whenever anyone asks what the proper coffee to water ratio is, how do you answer the question without talking about Lockhart's brewing control chart?
Lockhart's basic premise is that two primary variables affect a person's taste preferences:
-Concentration of coffee solids in the coffee solution, and -Percent of these solids "extracted" from the brew coffee.
Those are (not coincidentally) the same two axes that are on the brewing control chart.
So - the chart is really a guideline. I've always wondered why they don't just recommend the center of the sweet spot and call it good.
It's much easier to say: -use 18 parts water to 1 part brew coffee by weight. -For a drip coffeemaker, your grounds should be between 3/4" and 1 1/2" deep -The total drip cycle should take approximately 4 minutes.
If it tastes weak then ensure your brew water is 205°F and adjust if necessary, if still weak then use a finer grind.
If it tastes bitter or overly strong, use a coarser grind of coffee, and adjust the temperature of the brew water to 195°F if still too strong.
FOR THE MOST PART a 4 minute drip cycle at 200°F will almost always get you to acceptable extraction. It isn't magic.
It is, however, like a recipe - some ovens vary temperature, so your cookies baking may not take EXACTLY 12 minutes. Like anything else, altitude affects the temperature of boiling water. Compensating for this would be finer grind and maybe ABSOLUTE boiling water delivered slower - if you can do this.
Some people like a stronger coffee - so this chart helps understand which brew ratios will yield desired strength assuming your extraction is the same.
And if you have a refractometer, you can measure your own %TDS - I do it quite often. But I'm weird like that.
So, assuming you are achieving 20% extraction, your brew ratios are the following to achieve the corresponding strength:
Target SCAA strength of 1.25% - approximately 18 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT) Target SCAE strength of 1.325% - approximately 17 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT) Target NCA strength of 1.425% - approximately 16 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT)
To achieve the corresponding strengths with an immersion method like a French Press or AeroPress or CCD, just use 2 parts less brew water: Target SCAA strength of 1.25% - approximately 16 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT) Target SCAE strength of 1.325% - approximately 15 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT) Target NCA strength of 1.425% - approximately 14 parts brew water to 1 part brew coffee (by WEIGHT)
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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