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Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
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Sisyphus1978
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Abingdon
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Nesco/West Bend
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 5:20pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Howdy!  New member here, but not a newbie to coffee by any means.  I've had the Brazen for a few weeks now and recently started roasting my own beans via the Nesco.  Thus far, it would seem my two biggest challenges have been getting the brew temperature right and the pre-soak accurate enough, though I *might* be starting to turn the corner with the pre-soaking.  Far too often my brews have turned out kind of bitter.  I've adjusted the grind size (using Baratza Virtuoso, setting 20-22) and pre-soak to recommendations I've read throughout this thread, and I recently switched to the gold filter to see if that'd yield different results (changed grind setting to 25).  So far it's been okay, and the bitterness seems to have subsided; however, some thinness of taste has also crept in there from time to time.  I read a few pages back how darker roasts prefer lower temperatures while lighter ones seem to favor higher temps, but knowing where to draw the line has proven to be tricky.  

Typically I favor Full City roasts, but I also know that bean origins can also play a role.  With that stated, can anyone provide any good rules of thumb to help better gauge what temperature I should use?  I always knew temperature was important in flavor extraction, but I never thought fractional variations could affect taste so much.  I've got a rather awesome smelling batch of El Salvador Majahual Tablon La Montana from Sweet Maria's sitting downstairs (full city roasted it Saturday or Sunday), and I'd love to get it right tomorrow morning.  Lord knows a good cup of coffee can really help get the day started on the right foot, and with the way work tends to fare I need all the help I can get :).

Thanks!
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The_Coffee_Guy
Senior Member
The_Coffee_Guy
Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Welcome! My recommendation for temperature is to start at 204F and inch it up to 205 or down towards 200 to see how it does for flavour. Personally I use 204 and the gold filter as the gold filter allows the 'coffee oils' to enter the recipe for a great cup, adding flavour. In addition, I find the gold filter overall provides a bolder cup than paper filters. Its really a guessing game to taylor the taste to your liking but it is a fun 'addiction' if you will that never goes away once you use a BraZen :) I am sure you will get answers from those in the group that are pro and may know more about the chemistry behind the great cup of coffee. Happy Brewing.
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cafedj
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Oct 2003
Posts: 654
Location: NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bialetti, Aeropress
Grinder: Rocky doserless
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Counter Culture
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Sisyphus1978 Said:

Howdy!  New member here, but not a newbie to coffee by any means.  I've had the Brazen for a few weeks now and recently started roasting my own beans via the Nesco.  Thus far, it would seem my two biggest challenges have been getting the brew temperature right and the pre-soak accurate enough, though I *might* be starting to turn the corner with the pre-soaking.  Far too often my brews have turned out kind of bitter.  I've adjusted the grind size (using Baratza Virtuoso, setting 20-22) and pre-soak to recommendations I've read throughout this thread, and I recently switched to the gold filter to see if that'd yield different results (changed grind setting to 25).  So far it's been okay, and the bitterness seems to have subsided; however, some thinness of taste has also crept in there from time to time.  I read a few pages back how darker roasts prefer lower temperatures while lighter ones seem to favor higher temps, but knowing where to draw the line has proven to be tricky.  

Typically I favor Full City roasts, but I also know that bean origins can also play a role.  With that stated, can anyone provide any good rules of thumb to help better gauge what temperature I should use?  I always knew temperature was important in flavor extraction, but I never thought fractional variations could affect taste so much.  I've got a rather awesome smelling batch of El Salvador Majahual Tablon La Montana from Sweet Maria's sitting downstairs (full city roasted it Saturday or Sunday), and I'd love to get it right tomorrow morning.  Lord knows a good cup of coffee can really help get the day started on the right foot, and with the way work tends to fare I need all the help I can get :).

Thanks!

Posted November 26, 2012 link

Hi Sisyphus,
I am also new to the Brazen but not to coffee brewing.  My first piece of advice is don't give up on the Brazen.  Although I've also had several pots that have been either weak, thin, too strong, and/or bitter, I've also had some truly extraordinary results.  But with so many variables to play with it really isn't surprising that the range of results can be so wide.  The key, as with all brewing methods, it to find your sweet spot.  I can give you my current recipe, but since beans, roast, personal taste, grinders, etc. can all vary there's no one formula that will work best for everyone.  What I'm convinced of is the Brazen is extremely capable of producing a really exceptional brew, because I've tasted it.

During the course of experimenting I've varied everything, including 26 to 32 oz water, 30 to 35 g coffee, 190 to 205 temp, 45 sec to 2:30 pre-soak, grind settings from coarse drip to very fine, paper and gold filter.  

My experiments will continue, but here's what's currently working for me.

26 oz water
33 g coffee, ground fine, closer to espresso than drip (9 steps from 0 point on my Rocky)
45 sec pre-soak (10 day old beans)
201 deg
paper filter

The results can be all over the map, but what I'm so happy about is just how amazingly complex, rich, good and repeatable it can be when you get it set up right.

Keep us posted on your results.
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,869
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:04pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

cafedj Said:

My experiments will continue, but here's what's currently working for me.

26 oz water
33 g coffee, ground fine, closer to espresso than drip (9 steps from 0 point on my Rocky)
45 sec pre-soak (10 day old beans)
201 deg
paper filter

Posted November 26, 2012 link

This is a very low coffee to water ratio - most brew recipes using this amount water would also ask for around 45 grams of ground coffee.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:32pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Jeff,
Welcome to CG.
I am also a home roaster (11 years now!).
However, as you are fairly new to home roasting (?) I might suggest you get a pound or more of fresh roasted coffee from a commercial roaster you've read about here, perhaps a nice El Salvador similar to yours, maybe a fruity Ethiopian.
As you seem to like full body, go with 60 grams of coffee, water to the 1.25 mark. I cheat and go a 1/4" higher! As #'s are relative, I'd grind to the degree the grind is like salt when using the paper filter, or just finer than Kosher salt if using the basket (meaning, a coarser grind for the permanent basket). THIS is every bit as important as regards the BraZen as is the other elements such as temperature adjustment, pre-soak time, etc.

I would go with 200f (92.3 c) for the El Salvador, 201-202 for the Ethiopian.

By using artisan roasted beans, you take yourself out of the equation. By comparing the artisan beans to your El Salvador roast, you can see where you stand. Perhaps even bite into some beans from the artisan roast, and yours.
This is not meant in ANY way to demean your roasting skills! Just trying to give you a standard to shoot for.
A brewer as advanced as the BraZen has the unavoidable trait of making great coffee taste great, or less than great coffee taste....less than great.

Keep us up to speed!

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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Sisyphus1978
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Abingdon
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Nesco/West Bend
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 6:33am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Thanks for all of the great information!  I decided to run a test and ended up roasting a house blend from CoffeeBeanDirect (roasted it kind of dark, but not burned) and a Costa Rica Finca Salaca from SM's in a West Bend Poppery II, so I can see if the longer roasting time of the Nesco is somehow playing a role in the tastes I'm experiencing.  We'll see how that fares tomorrow AM.  For now, the coffee to which I referred previously came out okay this morning - 26 on Baratza, 201 degrees, 1:30 pre-soak (still less than 3 days old), and gold filter.  The caramel-like flavors I was supposed to experience are coming through, but it's a touch sour (I think) at the end, so I might need to bump up the temp a degree or two the next time, assuming the Nesco isn't to blame.
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cafedj
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Oct 2003
Posts: 654
Location: NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bialetti, Aeropress
Grinder: Rocky doserless
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Counter Culture
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 6:56am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

EricBNC Said:

This is a very low coffee to water ratio - most brew recipes using this amount water would also ask for around 45 grams of ground coffee.

Posted November 26, 2012 link

Depends on the bean and the grind for me.  I prefer a finer grind than most people use.  I don't go with charts, I use my taste to determine the ratio.  The bean I tried today, a relatively lightly roasted Costa Rica does need a larger dose.  I'll adjust until it's too strong then back off.
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,869
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Ever bother to measure the TDS of the cup you prefer at that low ratio? Seems like you enjoy very under-extracted coffee...

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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cafedj
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Oct 2003
Posts: 654
Location: NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bialetti, Aeropress
Grinder: Rocky doserless
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Counter Culture
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

EricBNC Said:

Ever bother to measure the TDS of the cup you prefer at that low ratio? Seems like you enjoy very under-extracted coffee...

Posted November 27, 2012 link

No, no meter.  Don't really care since it's all about the taste.  I don't think I like under extracted or weak coffee at all.  My strong preference is for deep body, as in french press, vacuum pot and Krups Moka Brew.  But I do have an aversion to over strong or bitter flavors.   I'm working on maximizing the depth and body with the Brazen.   Comes down to finding the right ratio, grind, temp, and pre-soak for the steep time.  The Ethiopia I had yesterday with that posted recipe was exceptionally good, layers of flavors, not max body of the Moka Brew but rich and more of the fruit notes.  I was planning to up the dose some but didn't have enough left for today.  Costa Rica I had this morning needs more coffee so I'll push it.
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,869
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 7:02pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Then why did you offer the recipe to the new owner's question? It sounds like your results are still very much a work in progress - why not just say that then?

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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