Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 9:06am Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
jpender Said:
I haven't brewed with a French press but maybe somebody here can answer this: Do the solids that you typically get with a French press make the coffee seem stronger than a cup of coffee of the same strength that is filtered through paper?
I certainly notice a difference when switching between Aeropress (paper filters) and moka coffee (noticable solids). The Aeropress coffee is both cleaner and yet somehow less satisfying. I think it's one (of several) reasons why I use more coffee in an Aeropress than in a moka pot.
I wonder if French press is similar in this regard. And if so, would someone who is accustomed to that be inclined to updose in an Aeropress?
The paper filters will filter out all suspended solids & cut down on a lot of the coffee oils also. See my posts/links/pics about the Able brewing regular & fine ss disks & the Kaffeologie S filter. Using any one of these you will then have all the body, mouthfeel & coffee oils sort of similar to a French press.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,758 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
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Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 2:12pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
Just a contrast to the above, neither is more "right" than the other, just different points of view and tastes. I prefer Aeropress to a French press, something like 1000 to 1. I really can't stand the fines in the cup. I also do the inverted press when I use the Aeropress, this tends to allow more oils get through rather than filtering them out in the bed of coffee.
I like a vac pot better than either of the two above though, it is a nice, clear cup with all the flavor and oils I could want, for me, it is very close to the perfect brewed cup.
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Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 2:23pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
CraigA Said:
... The paper filters will filter out all suspended solids & cut down on a lot of the coffee oils also. See my posts/links/pics about the Able brewing regular & fine ss disks & the Kaffeologie S filter. Using any one of these you will then have all the body, mouthfeel & coffee oils similar to a French press.
That's not exactly my experience, but as always there's variation. My estimation is that filtration of the grounds is at least as (if not more) important than the filter material.
I noticed that if I varied how I used my AeroPress and even how I use my press pot, I could vary the amount of fines in the cup.
I also noticed a couple of things:
When I took a press pot result (press the grounds, drain off the coffee) and ran it through an AeroPress WITH A PAPER FILTER, I still got lots of fines, oils and that classic press pot "feel". Even after multiple presses with new filters. Past a certain point, the paper filters don't absorb or filter out some of the fines - if you press under pressure. Successive filters do seem to absorb oils, though.
If I took a press pot result and then dumped it into a cone filter (like my basket from my BCM-4C), sometimes the draindown would actually stall because of the fines. Furthermore, I STILL got oils and fines in the cup.
It's only when I take the brew slurry and percolate it through a paper filter THROUGH a bed of grounds that I get truly clarified press pot coffee. If I use the AeroPress, I can get similar results if I put much of the brew slurry in and press - but only if I give it some time to settle against the filter. And I can even get really clean, very oil-free coffee with an AeroPress using just a disc (Able fine) if I allow the grounds to settle against the filter before pressing.
Now, with metal filters, before the grounds settle there can be some fines and oil that get through - but if you take the initial drainthrough (with fines) and dump them back into the grounds bed, the fines get filtered out by the grounds bed.
I can also use a paper filter over a press pot screen and obtain fairly (but not completely) clean coffee, and still a bunch of oil. Without a bed of grounds, the paper does what it can, but under the pressure of the screen of a press pot, it still can't filter out some of the fines. And if I let the press pot brew remain undisturbed for more than 2 minutes of the steep cycle, I tend to get a cleaner cup.
That tells me that overall filtration is a combination of the filtration barrier you choose, if you percolate or press through a bed of grounds, how long or if you allow the grounds to settle before draining (or pressing. Or pulling "Re: French Pull (Tirra)?" ), or if your method agitates and circulates (like a percolator).
The grounds have both the capability to absorb oils and a bit more than half the job of filtration of fines. Most people evaluating the Tirra, for example, note a cleaner cup than a traditional top-down press pot.
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Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 2:49pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
GREAT post Steve! I 've been home beer brewing since 1971 & went all grain full mash since since 1986, so I know full well about a sparging bed (& recirculation), depth of filtration bed, polyphenols, tannins, lipids, etc & where the increase in alkalinty (over mash tun PH of 5.0-5.1) will pull out too much of the undesirables so you have to know when to stop/arrive at your 'sparge end point'.
Going from memory, & that's 16 years ago for my last all grain mash! (coffee kinda took over ;)), the practical end point was a S.G. Specific Gravity of around 1.008 & PH of 5.3 which can vary on the style of beer being produced along with other factors (brewing water composition, etc).
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 3:40pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
Or to borrow from my knowledge of pond filters and HEPA filters:
Using just a paper filter (with no layer of grounds preceding it) only works well for low pressure because the thin medium is susceptible to channelling. The best filter designs use layered coarse-to-fine densities to distribute the flow and prevent channelling under higher throughput.
jpender Senior Member Joined: 11 Jul 2011 Posts: 427 Location: California Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Kyocera CM-50 Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot Drip: Aeropress
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 4:11pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
So if I stir vigorously right before pressing (through a paper filter) will I notice a difference in my Aeropress coffee? Will it be comparable to the coffee I'd get if used one of the several available metal filters?
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 4:25pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
jpender Said:
So if I stir vigorously right before pressing (through a paper filter) will I notice a difference in my Aeropress coffee? Will it be comparable to the coffee I'd get if used one of the several available metal filters?
Well from my point of view as I see it & my experience using the standard Aeropress paper filter & the three different metal disks, I'd say no. What are you trying to find/see/experience? As Netphilosopher analytically posts, there are many ways to use, experiment with extraction parameters/results, etc. The coffee will have a more 'polished' look & taste to it with a paper filter as compared to the disks IMO & FWIW.
Like an analogy of a "comparison" of a normal old style Bodum, generic, etc horizontal French press screen to the dual stage mico filtered French press coffee. There's a world of difference with the Espro & I don't think I'll be going back to the old style FP's anytime soon lol, if EVER..
This is TOTALLY more refined, like the difference between a coarse filtered FP, & the coffee grinds bed filtering effect in a vacuum pot. Smoother, cleaner, & a more refined 'polished' taste.
All depends I suppose on what you like, & are looking for in your AP coffee?
More body? I'm not sure exactly as I'm still a novice. The coffee I've brewed in an Aeropress has always tasted a little, I don't know, "flat" to me.
This morning I made two cups, the first my usual way and the second with a last minute stir followed by a faster press. There appeared to be more fines in the second cup, but I can't say it tasted a whole lot better or worse.
Which of the metal filters do you like best and why?
Well I 've only done a couple of brews with each one John, so I can't give an informed opinion without a lot more brews & experience with the three of them (regular & fine Able disks & Kaffeologie S disk).
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 6:25pm Subject: Re: French Press vs Aero Press
I've tried the three different sizes of the Able Brewing Disk metal filters with the Aeropress, the original 010 size, the second 008 size, and finally the FINE Disk. The first two filters are more rigid, feeling like a stainless steel wafer that has holes drilled in and the last one feels more like a mesh, though it does have some rigidity. I prefer the FINE Disk, it's the cleanest of the three and results in a nice cup. I suppose that you could have problems with longevity of the FINE Disk if you bend it, etc. but I haven't seen that with mine. I haven't been playing with it much since I got a Kalita Wave setup which also produces fine coffee, and more of it.
The metal filters are nice in that they are re-usable, easy to clean, and give you good mouthfeel / body and let the coffee oils pass through.
There is also the Kaffeologie S Filter for the Aeropress, I haven't tried this one.
With any of the metal mesh filters, you'll probably want to switch to an inverted Aeropress routine otherwise the water will drain too quickly. With the inverted method, there can be more chances for tips, spills, and burns, so be careful.
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