russ5679 Senior Member Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 25 Location: WI Expertise: I love coffee
Roaster: IRoast
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2012, 4:05pm Subject: Need help with Aeropress Cappuccino
I've been experimenting with making a cappuccino with an aeropress, but I'm having trouble getting the flavor/strength right.
I'm using about 22-24 grams of finely ground coffee (setting 10 on Baratza Encore). I'm filling the aeropress to the "2" level. I'm inverting the aeropress. I pour in enough water to cover the grounds, stir a bit, and then top off the water, put the filter cap on. I will let it steep about 30 seconds. My water temp is about 190.
I add 4 ounces of steamed milk to my 2 ounces of coffee. It is tasting weak to me. Is there a way to make the coffee stronger, or should I just do less milk than a traditional cappuccino?
Posted Sun Dec 9, 2012, 7:12pm Subject: Re: Need help with Aeropress Cappuccino
russ5679 Said:
I've been experimenting with making a cappuccino with an aeropress, but I'm having trouble getting the flavor/strength right.
I'm using about 22-24 grams of finely ground coffee (setting 10 on Baratza Encore). I'm filling the aeropress to the "2" level. I'm inverting the aeropress. I pour in enough water to cover the grounds, stir a bit, and then top off the water, put the filter cap on. I will let it steep about 30 seconds. My water temp is about 190.
I add 4 ounces of steamed milk to my 2 ounces of coffee. It is tasting weak to me. Is there a way to make the coffee stronger, or should I just do less milk than a traditional cappuccino?
If it tastes weak, it's probably because your coffee strength is less than traditional espresso.
Increase the coffee amount a little bit, it sounds like your grind is sufficiently fine. Then, increase your water temperature to 202°F, increase your steep time to 1 full minute with a decent amount of agitation, and finish it with a long press.
However, the thinking that it is 4oz milk to 2oz espresso may not be EXACTLY the recipe you think it is.
Are you sufficiently foaming the milk? In the end, a traditional cap has less liquid milk than the 2:1 because it's foamed milk at almost twice normal volume. The final ratio after the foam incorporates to a stable amount would be 1:1:1 residual foam, milk and espresso.
Since you're based around 2oz of coffee, that would be about 2oz (vol) of foam, and a light tan mix of 1:1 espresso and milk of about 2oz. Make sense?
I've actually seen "cheats" on the esoterics of proper cappucino making, but it works. Steam the milk, get some foam - that really light stuff on top.
Get your 2oz of high-strength coffee. Pour in JUST hot milk to 4 oz. Then use a spoon to lay in foam to top the glass off. I bet you'll find that a lot closer.
I ran into similar issues myself when goofing around with Aero-macciato and Aero-caps.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
If you brew inverted and the grind is fine enough, and the contact time is long enough, absolutely.
2oz is only about 60g of coffee. 90g of brew water should be right about to yield the correct amount of produced coffee.
I'd have to check but by memory, I think I did the "recommended" recipe (two scoops, fill to #2) and it was something like 100g water and 27g coffee, and I think I remember getting around 70g of coffee.
If you run that recipe, but steep a V. fine grind for 1 minute and press it over 30 seconds, it should be around a 20% extraction - but by immersion calculation.
E = (S*R)/(1-S) for immersion, so conversely S = E/(R+E)
W=90, C=22, R=90/22=4.1
S at E=20% would be expected to be 4.65%, and that's on par with my measurements (not a 10 second steep - you need about 90-120 seconds contact time, and that can include press).
Note that because of the strong brew ratio, the "standard" yield-based calculation of extraction will be WAY off ( (60g * .0465)/22 = 12.7% extraction - clearly incorrect).
A typical espresso like you'd find from a Starbucks superauto is around 5-6% strength (a double shot will average around 60g) - so my recommendation to bump the amount of coffee is because espresso is a percolation method, and for the same extraction and produced coffee yield, will be stronger. To compensate using an immersion method, you need to bump the brew ratio. Additionally, some of the yield for espresso may be significantly lighter, because some baristas use volume for produced espresso instead of mass, so the actual mass may be 15-30% less, intensifying the strength.
If russ5679 bumped the coffee amount to 27g instead, (very fine grind, 1 minute steep, long press), and use about 90-100g of brew water (at least 195°F), he SHOULD end up with around 60g of coffee at 5-5.5% strength. This is pretty much the same strength/mass and extraction as two "standard" shots of espresso - though it will not taste exactly the same as espresso, it will be a very good emulation.
Then, all he needs to do to get the right taste combo is mix it 1:1 with hot milk, and top it off half-again with foam, and I suspect he'd have a near 90% approximation of a decent cappuccino. At least that's my experience.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
russ5679 Senior Member Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 25 Location: WI Expertise: I love coffee
Roaster: IRoast
Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 1:23pm Subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Cappuccino with an Aeropress
Netphilosopher Said:
If you brew inverted and the grind is fine enough, and the contact time is long enough, absolutely.
2oz is only about 60g of coffee. 90g of brew water should be right about to yield the correct amount of produced coffee.
I'd have to check but by memory, I think I did the "recommended" recipe (two scoops, fill to #2) and it was something like 100g water and 27g coffee, and I think I remember getting around 70g of coffee.
If you run that recipe, but steep a V. fine grind for 1 minute and press it over 30 seconds, it should be around a 20% extraction - but by immersion calculation.
E = (S*R)/(1-S) for immersion, so conversely S = E/(R+E)
W=90, C=22, R=90/22=4.1
S at E=20% would be expected to be 4.65%, and that's on par with my measurements (not a 10 second steep - you need about 90-120 seconds contact time, and that can include press).
Note that because of the strong brew ratio, the "standard" yield-based calculation of extraction will be WAY off ( (60g * .0465)/22 = 12.7% extraction - clearly incorrect).
A typical espresso like you'd find from a Starbucks superauto is around 5-6% strength (a double shot will average around 60g) - so my recommendation to bump the amount of coffee is because espresso is a percolation method, and for the same extraction and produced coffee yield, will be stronger. To compensate using an immersion method, you need to bump the brew ratio. Additionally, some of the yield for espresso may be significantly lighter, because some baristas use volume for produced espresso instead of mass, so the actual mass may be 15-30% less, intensifying the strength.
If russ5679 bumped the coffee amount to 27g instead, (very fine grind, 1 minute steep, long press), and use about 90-100g of brew water (at least 195°F), he SHOULD end up with around 60g of coffee at 5-5.5% strength. This is pretty much the same strength/mass and extraction as two "standard" shots of espresso - though it will not taste exactly the same as espresso, it will be a very good emulation.
Then, all he needs to do to get the right taste combo is mix it 1:1 with hot milk, and top it off half-again with foam, and I suspect he'd have a near 90% approximation of a decent cappuccino. At least that's my experience.
Thank you for the tips! I followed them and just had the best cappuccino I've ever tasted. That was great.
How do I increase the numbers to get a larger cappuccino? I'm using the number 2 on the aeropress, but want to use the number 3 to get a little larger drink.
How much more coffee do I need to add when I go from 2 to 3? Would steep time be the same? Would I increase the milk by 1 ounce, so 3 instead of 2, plus foam?
Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 1:57pm Subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Cappuccino with an Aeropress
russ5679 Said:
Thank you for the tips! I followed them and just had the best cappuccino I've ever tasted. That was great.
How do I increase the numbers to get a larger cappuccino? I'm using the number 2 on the aeropress, but want to use the number 3 to get a little larger drink.
How much more coffee do I need to add when I go from 2 to 3? Would steep time be the same? Would I increase the milk by 1 ounce, so 3 instead of 2, plus foam?
A quickie way would be to increase the coffee amount (whatever you ended up with) by half again as much.
So, if you ended up with, say, 27g of coffee, then use (this sounds really bad) 27*1.5 = 40g coffee, then increase the water to #3. Or if you knew exactly how much water you had to get to #2, then multiply that by 1.5.
That would yield an extra oz. of coffee (give or take - you're just scaling).
Steep and grind are independent of the brew ratio, but now that you have the strength and extraction figured out, just scale this brew ratio and use the same steep time and grind.
Steep and grind controls the extraction, brew ratio controls the strength. Extraction is the largest determinant for taste/flavor. Strength is the intensity of the flavor profile.
(think of extraction as the song, strength is the volume)
Whatever you get in the cup is your new amount of hot milk to add, then top off with foam. That's how I'd do it.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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