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Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)

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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Now we know what...

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The_Coffee_Guy
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 107
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 3:45pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Joe, just to clafiry... (1) how much powder to water (gm/l) for the solution (2) should we dilute that solution with a full pot of 'room temp' water (3) how long should it sit before draining (4) When I took my picture the filter seemed clogged brown (grounds? doesn't make sense as we don't put grounds in the reservoir maybe that's what the blockages look like) Thanks for all your help. Interesting issue...

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 557
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 4:51pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

I did not do this personally rather it was performed by our techno chemist science guru (thank you John Nanci) who jumped on this like a dog to a bumper. He tested then relayed the data to me .. Pre mix solution.. as stated 10% thus 100 grams to 1L. He used smaller amount of water to equal about 40grams for 400ml water Pour into the reservoir, do a manual start up to 150F, then open manual release. Three systems he had on site all were cleared with this procedure. One he claimed was almost completely blocked with scale. I think allowing it to rest does nothing to assist with scale on the "out flow" side of the valve thus no need for. He used the same solution for each brewer so if desired a twice through wouldn't hurt followed by rinse cycles.

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

cafedj
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Location: NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bialetti, Aeropress
Grinder: Rocky doserless
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Counter Culture

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 5:56pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Joe - Thanks very much for this info. Since water varies so much from place to place, it doesn't seem like cleaning on a specific time period makes sense. Some might need it monthly, others not for 6 months or more. Is there some way to tell when the machine needs to be cleaned? A visual inspection of the screen in the hole, or a manual flow rate test? Thanks.

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 6:33pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

John said he'll pour over TDS and other data to try and put a chart of sorts together. The difficulty lies with the various levels of minerals found in locations across the US. We've looked at data from my own neighborhood and found locations 4 miles away with low TDS, with my water being double. What John has found data wise is 85% of the water supply in the US is hard water and a nightmare to all things that heat water or carry that water. We've learned almost every water heater's warranty is either voided or severely limited because of hard water's effects. While John is working on that aspect I'm in talks with the ONLY manufacturer of a portable product that truly conditions water and removes the minerals that are a nightmare to brewers, espresso machines, kettles etc. Brita filters and similar do not remove the minerals that cause the problems, RO yes but not those. I'm hoping I can with their assistance we can put in place a program geared exclusively for Behmor customers that includes discounts on the product at the front end and disounts on the filters/ conditioners for long terms because in reality the best means to control the issue is to control the type of water used. I know in my home, which has an inexpensive 3 stage RO system (under counter) I've used a brewer for 9 months and not had to do one thing with regards to cleaning the reservoir or valves.

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

MJW
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 74
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 7:11pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

I'm eager to try the procedure... Joe you still want me to hold off doing anything to mine? Thanks. -Mike

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 7:51pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Mike.. Actually we'd like you to try it because yours appears to be a worst case situation. John put together written instructions, probably to make sure I'd not messed things up in the transfer of info.. Here they are: Mix 50 g (4 T) of granular citric acid in 2 cups of warm water until dissolved. This is 10%. Note: Many people use 1 T/4 cups as a maintenance solution - we are doing restorative, hence much stronger, but with very short contact time. Put 10% solution in brewer. With manual release, heat to 150 F. Release water until half is gone - about 30 seconds. (fully clogged units started flowing within about 15 seconds) Shut the valve and wait 30 seconds. Open the valve and allow to fully drain. Solution can be saved for many more uses. Fill reservoir with water. Again, heat to about 150 and let drain through. If everything is now working right, release time should be between 2:30 and 3:00 minutes for a full reservoir to rinse and check. People may wish to run a 2nd rinse. I did not.

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

MJW
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 74
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:29pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Joe, thanks for the detailed instructions. Well, it didn't work in my case. Wasn't able to drain any water. I tried a couple times. Regarding the final drain. Draining 250 milliliters in 150 seconds (2:30) would be a flow rate of only 1.7 milliliters per second. [EDIT: either I can't read, or Joe changed the post to clarify this part of John's instructions. Or both...] If you want me to try any variations, let me know and I'll do it.

pgde
Senior Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Tucson, AZ
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: None
Grinder: Kitchenaid KPCG100
Vac Pot: None
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:05pm
Subject: Re: More Questions

tahoejoe Said:

The reason no dishwasher.. there is a gasket between the top portion (black/ handle) and the main body (stainless steel) that acts as a seal between the two to prevent leakage.. Dishwashers can effect (ruin) the seal

The factory recommends only soap and water, but will ask about Tabz tonight as I'm in communication with them every night.

deleted for space....

Posted January 13, 2013 link

Thanks Joe. Your support is outstanding!

Peter

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 8:09am Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

MJW Said: Joe, thanks for the detailed instructions. Well, it didn't work in my case. Wasn't able to drain any water. I tried a couple times. Regarding the final drain. Draining 250 milliliters in 150 seconds (2:30) would be a flow rate of only 1.7 milliliters per second. If you want me to try any variations, let me know and I'll do it. Posted January 13, 2013 link John meant a full reservoir would empty in that time...

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

redkiosk
Senior Member

Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Chicago Metro Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Illy Francis-Francis X1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso w/ Esatto...
Vac Pot: Someday, very intriguing
Drip: Bunn Trifecta MB
Roaster: A sure path to divorce!

Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 1:28pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Hi guys, I don't have a Brazen yet, but have been following this thread with regards to the scale build-up on the reservoir valve screen. Just a thought here, but would it be possible, while the citric acid solution is sitting in the reservoir, to take either a turkey baster or one of those large, plastic marinade injection syringes, place it in the reservoir hole and do a little push-pull pulsating? Something that might loosen larger chunks of scale or speed up the dissolving action. Using a syringe type device might even suck up most of the loosened scale. Like I said, I don't own one yet and do not know how large the reservoir hole is or even if this idea is possible, but I thought I would throw it out anyway. Take care! Jim

The pathologically precise are annoying, but right!

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