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Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Now we know what...  
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JKalpin
Senior Member
JKalpin
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 797
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, BraZen
Roaster: Freshroast+8, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 18, 2013, 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

CraigA Said:

What we're concerned with is the water salts of permanent hardness, not so much salts of temporary hardness.
It'd take me too long to type it out, so I'll try to link to the chart on the CG forums & I think I have a full explanation there.. My notes are on the 1983 chart. If your water is brought to a hard boil (can't remember the time period, ˝hr or so?) & is allowed to cool down & then decanted, the temporary hardness expressed as (CaCO3 Calcium Carbonate {alkaline salt}) will be precipatated out in the order of 30 - 40%.

Posted January 15, 2013 link

However, Craig, in a coffee-maker the water may boil for a few minutes (surely not half an hour) and then it proceeds to brew the coffee without cooling down until it is in the carafe, whereupon we ...drink it... CACO3 and all.  The permanent hardness will surely come out in an espresso boiler where we maintain steam for much longer, boil water to make micro foam, etc.  

In my Panasonic hot-pot (doing a re-boil every time I add water) I get loose sediment, lots of it.  In my Krups Moka Brew the reservoir has not a bit in it.  The only evidence of CACO3 is a light, almost transparent coat on some parts of the heating element (after 3 years).

 
Jerry
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,242
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Jan 18, 2013, 3:33pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JKalpin Said:

However, Craig, in a coffee-maker the water may boil for a few minutes (surely not half an hour) and then it proceeds to brew the coffee without cooling down until it is in the carafe, whereupon we ...drink it... CACO3 and all.  The permanent hardness will surely come out in an espresso boiler where we maintain steam for much longer, boil water to make micro foam, etc.

Posted January 18, 2013 link

Yes I know Jerry.  

In my Panasonic hot-pot (doing a re-boil every time I add water) I get loose sediment, lots of it.  In my Krups Moka Brew the reservoir has not a bit in it.  The only evidence of CACO3 is a light, almost transparent coat on some parts of the heating element (after 3 years).

I hear you.. The difference on the Krups too is the all stainless steel heating element also, not copper, aluminum., etc. I believe on the box or instructions it says something about the "low buildup/deposit" nature of its heating element. I'll go look at the box..

 
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MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:28am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

roastmybeans Said:

not looking forward to expensive shipping costs... those that had to send back did they cover costs?

Posted January 18, 2013 link

Not only do they cover the cost, I believe they ship you a new unit, then you ship yours back to them in the box it came in.

I think you'll want to measure your flow rate, by timing a drain from say 600 ml to 0 using manual release.  Usually the reason for retention is that the unit doesn't have time to drain it all, by the time the auto brew program ends.

Contact support and they'll take care of you.
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JavaGator
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Orlando FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:56am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

I haven't run in to the flow problem.  Been using brewer 1 to 2 pots a day since initial offering of unit.  Do I do a maintenance descale or leave it alone until a problem.  If I should do a maintenance descale, what method should I use when I haven't had any problems? The water I use is tap run through a tap mounted PUR water filter.  Thanks
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tahoejoe
Senior Member
tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 620
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JavaGator Said:

I haven't run in to the flow problem.  Been using brewer 1 to 2 pots a day since initial offering of unit.  Do I do a maintenance descale or leave it alone until a problem.  If I should do a maintenance descale, what method should I use when I haven't had any problems? The water I use is tap run through a tap mounted PUR water filter.  Thanks

Posted January 19, 2013 link

Maintenance descale is best... we are using Dezcal or citric acid (which is what Dezcal contains) or straight vinegar.

As to CLR while I await word from my chemist I'd not advise using it in the brewer as it contains some very nasty stuff that have health hazards assigned to some of it's components:
http://www.jelmar.com/msds/CLR_MSDS_eng.pdf

Regarding water.. the quick way to check your local water is go to www.zerowater.com fill in your zip, check TDS then when the next page appears scroll down below the map.. according to a chemist/ analyst below 99 is good.. above that could lead to trouble in all systems.

Lastly given we did not explicitly highlight the need to use soft water/ purified etc I'm eating shipping on returns. That's the right thing to do as well as apologize for the inconvenience.

We are correcting our manuals to include those explicit suggestions and advising all those getting new units to use softened/ purified water.

ps... I just spoke with my chemist- DO NOT USE CLR or similar industrial descalers they contain highly toxic chemicals!!!


!!!!!!   Only use products we recommend to include vinegar (un-diluted), citric acid and/or Dezcal (or similar coffee specific descalers) !

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!
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JavaGator
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Orlando FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 20, 2013, 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

I'm having a problem with descaling on my Brazen.  I ran 1L of dezcal mixture.  I ran it through with filter basket in the unit.  I then proceeded to run 2 more cycles with clean water.  I ran my normal cycle set to 203 degrees.  I got a lot of dripping from the out side of the filter basket, dripping down the sides of the pot.  Now I haven't tried running a regular cycle with coffee in the filter, but I found it odd that I got so much dripping from the outside of the filter basket holder.  Any comments?

UPDATE- just ran a cycle with paper filter and normal load of grounds.  I am still getting water dribbles on the out side of the basket that run down the side of the pot and create puddles on the bottom plate and around the unit.  This just started with descaling.  Could the water flow be increased to the point it is spraying along the edge of the filter basket and dribbling out?  Any advice is welcome.
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MJW
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Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 20, 2013, 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JavaGator, if it's dripping outside the filter holder it is either overflowing or the showerhead is spraying or leaking out the side somehow.

It could be:
- There's something wrong with the no-drip silicone valve, causing the filter holder to fill up and overflow...
- The shower head is spraying out the side... maybe some debris is stuck in the holes?
- The upper unit is leaking.

You can take the filter holder off and try to see what the shower head is doing, whether it is spraying down, or leaking out the side or something...

Maybe wiping off the showerhead a few times to clean it, may help, there may be some citric solution stuck there that is attracting water and making it flow to the edge.

With my unit, the showerhead rarely flowed out of the outermost holes; but when it did it flowed straight down.
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JavaGator
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Orlando FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 20, 2013, 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

MJW Said:

JavaGator, if it's dripping outside the filter holder it is either overflowing or the showerhead is spraying or leaking out the side somehow.

It could be:
- There's something wrong with the no-drip silicone valve, causing the filter holder to fill up and overflow...
- The shower head is spraying out the side... maybe some debris is stuck in the holes?
- The upper unit is leaking.

You can take the filter holder off and try to see what the shower head is doing, whether it is spraying down, or leaking out the side or something...

Maybe wiping off the showerhead a few times to clean it, may help, there may be some citric solution stuck there that is attracting water and making it flow to the edge.

With my unit, the showerhead rarely flowed out of the outermost holes; but when it did it flowed straight down.

Posted January 20, 2013 link

Thanks for the input.  I just did a test run without the filter basket and found that only 6 to 8 of my shower head holes actually release water.  The holes center left basically never release water.  The seal in the basket seems to work fine, and there is no leak from the upper unit.  Not sure if the lack of water from much of the shower head is a defect, but it seems like it would be.  I will brew a pot in the AM and see if its still leaking.
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MJW
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Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:03am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JavaGator, I think it's random which holes the water flows out of.  That's true of all drip machines, it's rarely perfect.
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JavaGator
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Orlando FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 5:04am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

MJW Said:

JavaGator, I think it's random which holes the water flows out of.  That's true of all drip machines, it's rarely perfect.

Posted January 21, 2013 link

I never paid attention to the shower head before.  Just seemed odd that so many of the drip holes never released any water.  Seems that would create uneven saturation of the grounds. On the plus side, it seems the leakage outside the filter basket has stopped.  I have no clue what caused it to leak in the first place.  I'm going to check if the Brazen is level on my kitchen counter, maybe it is askew and that is why most water is coming out from mainly the right side holes in the shower head.  I was thinking of running a second descale cycle, thinking maybe the screen is still clogged forcing the water to the right side of the shower head.  One thing for sure, it still brews great coffee, just brewed some Starbucks Verona Blonde and it is smooth.
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