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jordasaurus
Senior Member


Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3
Location: 1800masl
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Beehouse & V60
Roaster: Whatever's fresh
Posted Mon May 27, 2013, 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Pour Over Brewing
 

The emphasis is on the lack of linear rules.  We have to make slight and incongruent alterations based on multiple factors to find what we like best for each coffee.  This list in general is just options -- not rules or a manual -- that I've used in troubleshooting.  

With respects to coarsening grind for increased yields, I'm not suggesting there's a rule that every X oz requires Y coarsening.  My logic is that for more grams coffee, less surface area needs to be reached (i.e. the grind doesn't have to be as fine). The more water that touches the grounds, the more oils are washed off the grounds until the coffee is over-extracted bitterness.  That's not to say you can't keep the same fine grind, but I've found this tweak to be acceptable and timely.  

In my experience, keeping the brew ratio and grind the same when making more coffee (e.g. 16oz instead of 10oz) creates an over-extracted cup because there's more surface area to be reached, which tends to wash off more oils than desired.

I'm not sure what empirical evidence you're looking for regarding pre-infusion.  After pre-infusing, stick your finger to the bottom of the ceramic.  Are all the grounds equally saturated?  Maybe your grinder is better, maybe your water purer, perhaps the bean denser -- it may be a lot of things.  So no, I don't think this technique is essential, but I wrote this for troubleshooting.  If it helps make a better cup of coffee, great.  If not, try something else.

Even extraction gradients are essential, so I think this technique has some merit.  I've gotten consistent results of great cups on my Beehouse.  Not to mention, Four Barrel does this on their brew-bar.  They aren't the only one's with an opinion, but they do prioritize consistency.  By facilitating the equal flow of water to all levels of the bed, this technique helps eliminate channeling (perhaps a source of over/under extraction for different parts of the bed) by equal degassing, and helps create a consistent cup.
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Lee_M
Senior Member
Lee_M
Joined: 2 Dec 2012
Posts: 51
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: V60
Roaster: Popper
Posted Tue May 28, 2013, 10:53am
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Pour Over Brewing
 

When you talk about surface area, are you referring to the total surface area of the coffee, or just to the exposed surface of the coffee bed? The total surface area/mass ratio shouldn't change with dose if the grind is constantóbut the depth of the coffee bed does, and hence the exposed surface/mass ratio does change with dose (depending on bed geometry). Is that what you mean?
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jordasaurus
Senior Member


Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3
Location: 1800masl
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Beehouse & V60
Roaster: Whatever's fresh
Posted Tue May 28, 2013, 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Pour Over Brewing
 

Lee_M Said:

When you talk about surface area, are you referring to the total surface area of the coffee, or just to the exposed surface of the coffee bed? The total surface area/mass ratio shouldn't change with dose if the grind is constantóbut the depth of the coffee bed does, and hence the exposed surface/mass ratio does change with dose (depending on bed geometry). Is that what you mean?

Posted May 28, 2013 link

I mean when you grind finer particles there are more boulders and fines.  Therefore there's more exposed surface area total of all the grounds.  Think of it as a rectangle broken in two.  The newly exposed sides add increased surface area where they were once adjoined.  Scott Rao discusses it in "Everything but Espresso."
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Lee_M
Senior Member
Lee_M
Joined: 2 Dec 2012
Posts: 51
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: V60
Roaster: Popper
Posted Sun Jun 2, 2013, 7:10pm
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Pour Over Brewing
 

Yes, I agree that a finer grind has more surface area than a coarse one. But you weren't discussing grind. I thought you were saying that the brew ratio should change with batch size. Which (I guess) is because a larger amount of coffee has more surface area? Is that the argument?

The way I understand coffee extraction is that scaling up shouldn't really change anything unless brew time or brewing device are not equally scaled up (which they aren't, if you're using the same pouring technique or brewing device). Of course, you can keep the same technique and brewing device by altering other things. I'm not sure one approach is better or worse than the other.
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MWJB
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Jun 2013
Posts: 188
Location: UK
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Rocky, Lido, Porlex, Hario...
Drip: Not enough room to list...
Posted Mon Jun 3, 2013, 8:35am
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Pour Over Brewing
 

BobJenkins Said:

So based on these posts I have tried extending the brew time to 3 mins, making the grind slightly finer (its most of the way to espresso grind now), and using slightly hotter water.

DEFINITELY more caffeinated.
The sour taste is basically gone
Overall tastes like a nice cup, but not great.
Main thing that has me still stumped is that all of the different flavours and nuances that I have experienced in cafes that make pour over aren't there, and the beans are professionally roasted COE, fresh and roasted for filter.

Is it really THAT hard to make a great cup using a pour over?

Posted May 1, 2013 link

Try not adding all your brew water in one hit, for 17g dose try adding up to 245g, then lift off the brewer give it a swirl/stir & taste (maybe easier with a cupping spoon), then pulse another 10-15g through, lift off the cone & swirl/stir & taste again...repeat until you get a flavour you like, or you are around/beyond 50g/l, or are getting a drying bitterness (the latter 2 mean tighten up your grind & start again).

You don't say which V60 you have, I'd use the 02 for a 17g dose.
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