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food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
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coffeeguydenton
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denton, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Chemex
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 6:37pm
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

Right.  And as far as I can tell, it seems unlikely.  I don't know enough to give the exact growth requirements, but coffee is a relatively nutrient poor environment, especially sugars which are required by most microorganisms.
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Buckley
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 2:26am
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

Has little to do with nutrients and much to do with pH.   C. botulinum cannot replicate and sporulate very well in an acidic environment.  Salt impedes their survival, as well.  That is why botulism has nothing at all to do with pickles, including pickled meat, and everything to do with home canned meat, green beans, and the like.  'Botulinum' comes from 'botulus', the latin word for sausage.  Coffee is an acidic environment.  You are safe.  For those of you who came late to this thread: he is safe.  For readers for whom english is a second language:  he  is  safe.  For all the medical students reading this:  he is safe.
B
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coffeeguydenton
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denton, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Chemex
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 5:48am
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

Buckley Said:

Has little to do with nutrients and much to do with pH.   C. botulinum cannot replicate and sporulate very well in an acidic environment.  Salt impedes their survival, as well.  That is why botulism has nothing at all to do with pickles, including pickled meat, and everything to do with home canned meat, green beans, and the like.  'Botulinum' comes from 'botulus', the latin word for sausage.  Coffee is an acidic environment.  You are safe.  For those of you who came late to this thread: he is safe.  For readers for whom english is a second language:  he  is  safe.  For all the medical students reading this:  he is safe.
B

Posted June 25, 2013 link

Never said he wasn't. But I am fairly certain that C. botulinum grows at pH of about 4.5 to 7, and most coffee falls in that range.  Still think he's safe, just don't think it has anything to do with pH.
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Buckley
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 6:16am
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

roger that.
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oktyone
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Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 6:45pm
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

Check out Todd Carmichael on his cold brew bottles for La Colombe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgQyIAPy9i8

Pretty interesting stuff. He uses wine tanks with cold filtered water and liquid nitrogen to keep oxygen out, brews for 16 hours, filters twice then filters through a wine filter (press), flash pasteurizes it at 160 for 30 secs, then rapidly cools it, and adds a drop of liquid nitrogen to each bottle right before capping.
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oktyone
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Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jun 27, 2013, 8:16pm
Subject: Re: food safety of cold brew coffee - specifically botulism
 

@coffeeguydenton

Do you see any particular advantage in using liquid nitrogen over CO2? La Colombe's method seems consistent with your ideas except for the pasteurization (i'd love to compare a fresh one right before and after pasteurization), and liquid nitrogen instead of CO2, so you definitely were on the right track.

Not sure about other commercial cold brews, i'm pretty certain some of them are not meant to last longer than a week. Gorilla Coffee in Brooklyn is particular in that they package their cold brews in Tetra-Paks rather than bottles, not sure what's the thought behind it, but other than looking cool, it does a better job at keeping UV light out, possibly even cheaper and easier to handle, but obviously not feasible for home brewers.
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